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on this episode of skeptico

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a show about looking for a Hero

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the final part of the secret is that you

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deserve to feel miserable look at you

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it's robotic So Vain any bit of culture

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you have is ruined by self-importance

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and egotism there is no doubt you all

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are in need of a hero someone brave

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enough to confront me and control you

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but this will not come to pass I am the

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villain you are stuck with besides what

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and finding it very very close to home

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like in the mirror

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and it's in many ways anti-human

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anti-life

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it's just like ah humans or whatever we

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should just enhance ourselves and forget

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about it so I have this very skeptical

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conspiratorial lens of what's happening

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in the world I think we need to be very

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careful about some of the things that

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might sound benevolent and maybe some of

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the people involved have a benevolent

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intent

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but who knows what could that do to our

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soul

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it is love and light but we've got to be

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tough and that's something I don't see

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as much in the spiritual world

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down

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that first clip was from the very

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excellent mouthy Buddha

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and the second is from today's returning

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guest Mark Gober

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who came to talk about E.T and wound up

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talking about a lot of other stuff as

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well

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stick around I think this is a great

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conversation with a truly truly great

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and important thinker

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics I'm your host Alex Securis

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and today we welcome back Mark Gober to

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skeptico

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Mark if you're at all familiar with the

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show especially the last couple years

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you will definitely remember the

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interviews that we've had with him the

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first was

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a few years ago back he wrote this

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really amazing book and into upside down

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thinking dispelling the myth that the

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brain produces Consciousness duh

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and the implications for everyday life

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or we should say really the implications

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for

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the psyopt that wants to tell you that

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that duh isn't a dawn that you should

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really take that seriously but Mark does

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an awesome job awesome job of breaking

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that down he's also written several

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other books in this upside down series

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but his latest really caught my

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attention

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and even though we did an interview with

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them not too long ago this is

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I mean this guy is really such a Next

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Level thinker and it's just always

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fantastic to talk to him but here's the

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latest one

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check this out because this is this is

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challenging

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an end to upside down contact

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UFO aliens and spirits and why their

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ongoing interaction with human

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civilization matters

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wow I mean

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that is that is really powerful stuff

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Mark welcome thanks for coming back on

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well thank you for having me Alex you

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know I was just teeing up chatting with

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you for just a second and I was saying

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you know my big question when I get to

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this topic and I always think about this

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I never articulated is

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are we Flying Too Close to the sun here

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and I think all your books risk doing

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that but I always wonder when we talk

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about this stuff like

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I don't have like a big huge profile or

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anything like that but I am genuinely

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concerned when I talk about this stuff

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because and we'll talk about that but I

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I prefer to kind of dispense with the

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and get right down to the

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nitty-gritty is like this is like a

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central question to

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our society our culture the manipulation

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of our society our culture throughout

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time and does there reach a point when

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you know even though you look around and

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you say well gee other people are

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talking about this for people who are

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successful and have made it inside the

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game like you have and I have

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I know this is like a huge question to

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start off with but it is the question do

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you wonder do you worry am I flying too

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close to the Sun you obviously don't

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think you are because you've published

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this book but

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what do you think yeah well it's a great

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question Alex it's something I think

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about a lot because my quest since I

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started this six years ago had my

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personal the beginning of my personal

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transformation has been to get to the

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truth because I realized that whatever I

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thought about life was completely wrong

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and it's been a quest since then and

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it's ongoing

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so that's been my compass is to try to

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get to the truth and

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um I get pulled in these directions and

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I just kind of can't stop it so I do try

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to be mindful of

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doing it in in a diplomatic way as much

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as possible and just presenting facts

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because the things that I'm presenting

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are all publicly available and I try to

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draw some lines between things and try

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to help connect the dots but I'm

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presenting things that are already out

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there and I've made the decision

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repeatedly that it's worth doing it

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because I think as a society we are so

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far away from the truth I mean myself

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included I don't feel like I understand

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it it's just mind-blowing that we're all

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going through life with these big

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Central questions about our existence

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who are we why are we here who do we

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co-exist with how does it all work we

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don't know the answers to those

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questions so to me that's what matters

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in life I mean there are other things

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that go along with it but I I haven't

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been able to pull away from that so I've

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just decided to go with it well that's

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that's great and uh you know what I

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think you do really well and you've done

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it again here is you couldn't bounce

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back and forth between that big picture

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stuff that you just talked about and the

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practice implications for how you're

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going to go about living your life on a

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day-to-day basis and I think that's

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terrific and I think that's what

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separates this whole field that we're in

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here this podcasting talking about this

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it separates the infotainment stuff from

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the genuine quest for the truth I I you

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know I started so long ago I felt like

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I was flying under the radar to just be

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able to talk to the people I wanted to

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talk to infotainment was the furthest

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thing from my mind I just wanted to be

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able to talk to these people and the

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game has really changed now to the

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extent where

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it's all about you know entertaining

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people which we have to do to a certain

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extent to have any kind of voice at all

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but what I really admire about you is

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what you just summed up right there

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I really feel that I'm talking to

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someone who's trying to figure this

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stuff out for his own personal

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betterment to like what what is what is

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this all about not just to entertain

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somebody

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that's that's been my goal I want to

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figure it out for myself because I'm

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really curious and then I get this urge

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to share it with people and that's how

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the books come about I mean I didn't

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know I was going to write a first book

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and then people were asking me what are

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you going to write next and I said I

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have no idea I would say that right now

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it's just I go with what's next what

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feels right but it is like you say I

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want to understand the truth because if

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we don't know the truth how can we

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really know how to live and to

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prioritize things in our life

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well uh speak to that for a minute I

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know that's before we dive into the

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whole alien thing and I got a million

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million you know we can go in a million

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directions there but that's a really

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important point to start with is this

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how do you understand that how do you

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understand your personal view of why the

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truth is important how to pursue the

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truth what that means on your own

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spiritual journey on your own moral if

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people are uncomfortable with spiritual

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on your own kind of moral ethical

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Journey

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well I think about this

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all the time every day so it's evolving

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but I my sense is that we

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we exist to evolve our consciousness

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so we're evolving not at the bodily

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level so much as we are the spiritual

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level the aspect of us that inhabits the

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body if you want to call it a soul the

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part of us that extends past this body

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that seems to have

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it perhaps an infinite life and we are

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going through a reincarnation cycle

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there's lots of evidence from the

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University of Virginia over 2 500 cases

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of children with past life memories and

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if you combine that with the evidence of

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the Life review and near-death

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experiences where people relive their

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lives at a time when their brain is

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either barely functioning or completely

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off they become the people that they

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impacted during their life they get to

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feel those feelings so if you put those

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together it teaches us that we're

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perhaps evolving through our lifetimes

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so morally you always talk about this

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Alex the moral imperative I think

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there's something built into the nature

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of reality itself and Dr Bruce Grayson

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at UVA has found in talking to

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near-death experienced survivors that

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this is natural law it's beyond morality

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this notion of a Life review and what

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some would call the Golden Rule of

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wanting to treat people well because

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we're interconnected so that is

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part of what guides my compass is is

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wanting to to treat people well and that

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can manifest in many ways I think

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getting to the truth helps with that

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with that cause because when people are

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more awakened

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they will align in that direction and

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might not be as susceptible to some of

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the traps our society places on us and

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one of the things I wonder more and more

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is I don't have an answer to this are

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there things in society that push us in

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a Direction Where We make decisions that

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are not in our best interest even though

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we might have a good intention

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and were manipulated so I more and more

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in that mindset you've been in that

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mindset for a while and trying to

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uncover that because that hopefully

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could if we uncover it and get to the

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truth then there might be less suffering

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or less unnecessary suffering yeah I

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mean I I don't want to just stick to the

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spiritual because I'd love to we could

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talk about it all day but to me that is

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the essence of the deep spirituality

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that this Quest For Truth brings because

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as you pointed out just a minute ago and

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you keep circling back to it because

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00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:29,339
it's Central to the whole thing is how

279
00:10:37,370 --> 00:10:33,360
could there be any goodness any realness

280
00:10:39,650 --> 00:10:37,380
if it isn't fundamentally true I mean if

281
00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:39,660
it's not fundamentally true then it

282
00:10:44,990 --> 00:10:42,360
can't be fundamentally good it's got to

283
00:10:46,850 --> 00:10:45,000
be tainted so to constantly be searching

284
00:10:48,829 --> 00:10:46,860
for what is true is the same as

285
00:10:50,509 --> 00:10:48,839
searching for what is is good to me

286
00:10:51,970 --> 00:10:50,519
they're it's it's I don't want to get

287
00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:51,980
too philosophical but they're almost

288
00:10:56,509 --> 00:10:54,720
indistinguishable and I think this

289
00:10:58,009 --> 00:10:56,519
deception part of it

290
00:11:02,090 --> 00:10:58,019
I don't think it has to be something

291
00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:02,100
that we're angry about or were out you

292
00:11:08,569 --> 00:11:05,640
know go get our AK-47s about it's just

293
00:11:11,810 --> 00:11:08,579
another part of the truth of the reality

294
00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:11,820
that we have to understand is that does

295
00:11:16,850 --> 00:11:14,760
that conform to how you've seen it yeah

296
00:11:19,310 --> 00:11:16,860
and what you're describing in a way is

297
00:11:21,470 --> 00:11:19,320
this dichotomy of good evil that many

298
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:21,480
talk about and another way of describing

299
00:11:24,889 --> 00:11:23,040
good evil in the way that I look at life

300
00:11:26,329 --> 00:11:24,899
is that it's just a mechanism of

301
00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:26,339
evolution

302
00:11:29,810 --> 00:11:28,680
it enables us to learn things so we

303
00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:29,820
could get really angry about stuff

304
00:11:33,170 --> 00:11:31,500
that's evil and to a certain extent that

305
00:11:34,850 --> 00:11:33,180
makes sense but at a higher level there

306
00:11:36,829 --> 00:11:34,860
is learning to be had from it that

307
00:11:38,269 --> 00:11:36,839
doesn't mean we ignore the manipulation

308
00:11:39,949 --> 00:11:38,279
or the evil it just means we put it in

309
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:39,959
the proper context that this is part of

310
00:11:43,490 --> 00:11:42,000
reality and it's important to

311
00:11:44,569 --> 00:11:43,500
acknowledge it rather than put our heads

312
00:11:46,130 --> 00:11:44,579
in the sand which is one of the

313
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:46,140
phenomena that I've been witnessing a

314
00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:47,820
lot of that that really concerns me

315
00:11:51,710 --> 00:11:49,860
especially in the spiritual community of

316
00:11:53,569 --> 00:11:51,720
let's just look at love and light which

317
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:53,579
is part of the story but you're going to

318
00:11:57,470 --> 00:11:55,440
miss a lot of the potential manipulation

319
00:12:00,110 --> 00:11:57,480
if you're not attuned to how deception

320
00:12:02,990 --> 00:12:00,120
works okay so with that we've been

321
00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:03,000
bouncing around the topic long enough

322
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:05,399
because all the points that you're

323
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:08,639
making are brought forward in a new way

324
00:12:14,329 --> 00:12:11,760
in a challenging way for a ton of people

325
00:12:18,350 --> 00:12:14,339
in this book and end to upside down

326
00:12:21,350 --> 00:12:18,360
contact UFOs aliens and spirits

327
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,360
and why they're ongoing

328
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,519
I mean every one of these words could

329
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:26,160
spend you know time ongoing how long has

330
00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:28,079
it been ongoing how do we know it's been

331
00:12:33,889 --> 00:12:30,899
ongoing is it you know and and what does

332
00:12:38,170 --> 00:12:33,899
ongoing mean ongoing means they didn't

333
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:38,180
even if we put a date on it like oh

334
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:41,519
1947. oh no it's back for the net oh

335
00:12:47,690 --> 00:12:44,639
Bruce Fenton recently on oh it's 780 000

336
00:12:50,509 --> 00:12:47,700
years ago so if you go back how far do

337
00:12:53,449 --> 00:12:50,519
you go back and and so anyways and then

338
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:53,459
interaction I'm just taking the title of

339
00:12:58,970 --> 00:12:54,720
the book you know we could break down

340
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,980
every what does interaction mean I can't

341
00:13:04,129 --> 00:13:00,959
stumble through this whole thing we'll

342
00:13:07,069 --> 00:13:04,139
just have to have you tee it out but the

343
00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:07,079
finish the title with their why their

344
00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:09,480
ongoing interaction with human

345
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,860
civilization matters okay Mark I again I

346
00:13:18,889 --> 00:13:15,600
just get excited and I start rambling

347
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:18,899
break down the title for us what does

348
00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:20,760
all that mean to you

349
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,560
well Alex I really appreciate that you

350
00:13:25,730 --> 00:13:24,480
focused on the word so closely because

351
00:13:27,889 --> 00:13:25,740
that's what I do when I'm writing the

352
00:13:29,389 --> 00:13:27,899
books especially the title each word is

353
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:29,399
very meaningful and I go back and forth

354
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,200
with things so I I landed with that as

355
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,639
the subtitle

356
00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:34,560
and

357
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,060
so

358
00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:37,920
the series of books which of course at

359
00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:39,000
the beginning I didn't know was going to

360
00:13:43,490 --> 00:13:41,100
be a series it's all about things being

361
00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:43,500
upside down meaning that the way that we

362
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:48,839
look at X Y and Z is off is off base

363
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:51,839
and I had come across the topic of UFOs

364
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,320
and other intelligences that exist

365
00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:56,399
seemingly in the universe in my past

366
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:58,500
research but and even when we last

367
00:14:00,829 --> 00:14:00,000
talked which wasn't that long ago I

368
00:14:02,689 --> 00:14:00,839
didn't know I was going to be writing

369
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,699
this book I wasn't planning on it

370
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:05,040
but I was for whatever reason got pulled

371
00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:07,199
down this Rabbit Hole I knew I knew

372
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:09,060
pieces of it but not some of the details

373
00:14:12,290 --> 00:14:10,800
that I talk about in the book but I

374
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:12,300
realized this this notion of contact

375
00:14:16,850 --> 00:14:15,120
broadly is really important and when I

376
00:14:19,129 --> 00:14:16,860
say contact people usually talk about

377
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:19,139
UFOs there's an associate correlation

378
00:14:23,210 --> 00:14:21,420
there that people usually associate and

379
00:14:25,009 --> 00:14:23,220
that's part of it is that UFOs whatever

380
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:25,019
these crafts are that's a big piece of

381
00:14:27,949 --> 00:14:26,399
the puzzle that there might be a

382
00:14:29,689 --> 00:14:27,959
non-human intelligence involved but

383
00:14:31,310 --> 00:14:29,699
maybe it's not just UFOs I mean in

384
00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:31,320
near-death experiences

385
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:33,000
people encounter deceased relatives

386
00:14:36,889 --> 00:14:34,980
beings of light Spiritual Beings and

387
00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:36,899
lots of other things so that's when I

388
00:14:41,930 --> 00:14:39,180
talk about contact and UFOs aliens and

389
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:41,940
Spirits I'm talking about all types of

390
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:44,399
contact with other intelligent beings

391
00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:47,279
which suggests that humans are not at

392
00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:48,779
the top of the food chain

393
00:14:53,150 --> 00:14:51,480
which is to people on your show and your

394
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,160
audience is probably not such a big deal

395
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:55,440
to think that way but that's a paradigm

396
00:14:58,610 --> 00:14:57,120
shifting idea for those who haven't

397
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:58,620
thought about it because there's this

398
00:15:02,210 --> 00:15:00,180
implicit sense that human beings at the

399
00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:02,220
top of the intelligence food chain what

400
00:15:05,870 --> 00:15:03,540
if we're not

401
00:15:08,210 --> 00:15:05,880
um so that's that's what I get into in

402
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:08,220
the book and this notion of an their

403
00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:09,839
ongoing interaction with human

404
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,420
civilization and why it matters the word

405
00:15:17,569 --> 00:15:13,920
ongoing

406
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:17,579
implies that this is happening now and

407
00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:19,440
has been happening for a very very long

408
00:15:22,610 --> 00:15:21,540
time how long I don't know but it seems

409
00:15:24,889 --> 00:15:22,620
like it's

410
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,899
very very far back and that's what one

411
00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:26,399
of the things I examined in the book is

412
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,699
the the evidence for not just UFO or

413
00:15:33,170 --> 00:15:31,680
non-human contact since the 1940s

414
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,180
because we've had a lot of cases since

415
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:35,279
then but way before that way back to

416
00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:36,959
ancient times and who knows maybe even

417
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:38,699
earlier

418
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:41,100
and it seems to be happening now and

419
00:15:44,269 --> 00:15:42,720
probably will be going

420
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:44,279
through the future

421
00:15:48,889 --> 00:15:46,980
and in terms of why it matters

422
00:15:50,449 --> 00:15:48,899
um I mean if there are other intelligent

423
00:15:51,889 --> 00:15:50,459
beings and we should get into this how

424
00:15:53,569 --> 00:15:51,899
intelligent they might be it might be

425
00:15:55,009 --> 00:15:53,579
incomprehensible how intelligent these

426
00:15:58,009 --> 00:15:55,019
beings are

427
00:15:59,629 --> 00:15:58,019
it it means everything how can we

428
00:16:00,590 --> 00:15:59,639
examine anything that's happening in the

429
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,600
world

430
00:16:03,530 --> 00:16:02,399
without thinking in the back of our

431
00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:03,540
minds well there are these other

432
00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:05,339
intelligences who might be interacting

433
00:16:09,410 --> 00:16:07,560
with us in ways that we can't ordinarily

434
00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:09,420
perceive with our eyes and before I

435
00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:11,100
pause I want to give an analogy that I

436
00:16:14,210 --> 00:16:13,019
mentioned in the introduction to the

437
00:16:15,530 --> 00:16:14,220
book and I mentioned it in one of my

438
00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:15,540
other books as well because it relates

439
00:16:20,030 --> 00:16:17,820
to spirituality in general the notion

440
00:16:21,889 --> 00:16:20,040
that we are

441
00:16:24,110 --> 00:16:21,899
we have a limitation in terms of what we

442
00:16:26,689 --> 00:16:24,120
can perceive naturally and the analogy I

443
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,699
give is from The novella Flatland

444
00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:28,320
where people are living in a

445
00:16:31,069 --> 00:16:29,880
two-dimensional world like a flat piece

446
00:16:33,170 --> 00:16:31,079
of paper

447
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:33,180
now if you imagine for a second that a

448
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:34,980
sphere intersects with this

449
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:36,000
two-dimensional World a

450
00:16:39,230 --> 00:16:37,440
three-dimensional object intersecting

451
00:16:40,970 --> 00:16:39,240
with a two-dimensional world the people

452
00:16:42,530 --> 00:16:40,980
in the two-dimensional world will

453
00:16:44,569 --> 00:16:42,540
perceive a circle

454
00:16:45,889 --> 00:16:44,579
because they're only in two-dimensional

455
00:16:48,170 --> 00:16:45,899
land all they can see is that Circle

456
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:48,180
they don't see the full sphere and what

457
00:16:52,129 --> 00:16:49,680
I wonder more and more is if we're like

458
00:16:54,829 --> 00:16:52,139
the people living in Flatland

459
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:54,839
who can't even perceive these

460
00:16:58,249 --> 00:16:56,399
multi-dimensional realities we get a

461
00:17:00,110 --> 00:16:58,259
sliver of it but so much more is

462
00:17:01,790 --> 00:17:00,120
happening and actually potentially

463
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:01,800
interacting with our world that we can't

464
00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:05,520
perceive so great and before I kind of

465
00:17:09,549 --> 00:17:07,140
jump in there and take us in too many

466
00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:09,559
directions you know because I'm like

467
00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:12,120
rapidly jotting down notes as you're

468
00:17:16,130 --> 00:17:13,260
talking about this

469
00:17:20,090 --> 00:17:16,140
but here might be a more interesting way

470
00:17:22,370 --> 00:17:20,100
to kind of approach this Mark as you

471
00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:22,380
kind of go forward with this book and

472
00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:24,780
you bring it out to people and then

473
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,299
you're kind of joining this public

474
00:17:31,549 --> 00:17:29,520
discourse that's going on which is all

475
00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:31,559
over the place I mean this this course

476
00:17:36,049 --> 00:17:34,260
on the UFO community and even people who

477
00:17:37,789 --> 00:17:36,059
are being sucked into the UFO community

478
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:37,799
and never thought they would be part of

479
00:17:42,529 --> 00:17:40,320
that Community but now it's so much a

480
00:17:44,930 --> 00:17:42,539
part of the standard dialogue what are

481
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:44,940
the conversations that you are being

482
00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:48,000
drawn into right now that you think

483
00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:50,340
relate most to

484
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,220
your book and the issues that you're

485
00:17:56,810 --> 00:17:54,960
raising in the book what are two or

486
00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:56,820
three of them I mean I can spot some of

487
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,620
them from what you just said but I want

488
00:18:03,230 --> 00:18:00,720
to know what comes to mind for you sure

489
00:18:04,669 --> 00:18:03,240
well one is what we're seeing in the

490
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:04,679
public discourse these days with

491
00:18:09,950 --> 00:18:07,919
hearings about UFOs it's becoming a more

492
00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:09,960
mainstream topic even relative to a year

493
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:11,220
or two ago this is something that

494
00:18:14,330 --> 00:18:12,840
everyone's acknowledging that there's

495
00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:14,340
something going on

496
00:18:17,390 --> 00:18:16,140
and we might not know it maybe the

497
00:18:19,549 --> 00:18:17,400
government knows things that they're not

498
00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:19,559
telling us that's what I think but I'm

499
00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:22,020
saying the mainstream thinking now is

500
00:18:26,270 --> 00:18:24,059
there's something happening so that's

501
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,280
one area that seems to overlap with just

502
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:28,320
general thinking in the world I can't

503
00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:30,000
let you off even on that one so you you

504
00:18:36,529 --> 00:18:33,480
put one on the table okay what's what's

505
00:18:39,289 --> 00:18:36,539
Mark Gober think about that how do you

506
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:39,299
look at that from this expanded view

507
00:18:45,650 --> 00:18:41,580
that you have now this conspiratorial

508
00:18:48,110 --> 00:18:45,660
view you have and this expanded view of

509
00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:48,120
extended Consciousness I mean I

510
00:18:52,730 --> 00:18:50,340
juxtapose that to the hearings and I

511
00:18:55,130 --> 00:18:52,740
come up with a with one view but I want

512
00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:55,140
to hear what your view is yeah I don't

513
00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:56,760
trust anything we're being told that's

514
00:19:00,770 --> 00:18:57,900
my view

515
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:00,780
but it's in the public discourse whereas

516
00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:03,120
it wasn't as much

517
00:19:06,890 --> 00:19:05,160
you know as of a few years ago so people

518
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:06,900
are talking about the topic are they

519
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:08,880
talking about it accurately

520
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,039
maybe a tiny sliver you know the fact

521
00:19:15,409 --> 00:19:13,440
that these crafts exist and they can do

522
00:19:18,049 --> 00:19:15,419
things that that are modern technology

523
00:19:19,970 --> 00:19:18,059
can't do or maybe secret programs can do

524
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:19,980
they're acknowledging that but I think

525
00:19:23,690 --> 00:19:21,660
much is being left out the really

526
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,700
important stuff is being left out yeah

527
00:19:26,990 --> 00:19:25,200
and if I could just add on that point

528
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:27,000
and I want you to tee up the other ones

529
00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:28,559
so we don't just spend all the time here

530
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:31,799
because we could but they've done a very

531
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:34,080
effective job of changing the narrative

532
00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:36,960
immediately I mean we can start with you

533
00:19:42,049 --> 00:19:38,280
know we got to name names like Lou

534
00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:42,059
Elizondo he is a counterintelligence guy

535
00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:45,000
I mean why is a counterintelligence guy

536
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,100
being the one to tell you about UFOs

537
00:19:51,710 --> 00:19:48,960
it's it's fake from the beginning it's

538
00:19:54,350 --> 00:19:51,720
Richard Doty 2.0 it's strawberry ice

539
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,360
cream it's the you know Richard Doty

540
00:19:58,850 --> 00:19:56,640
famous Paul benowitz you know

541
00:20:01,390 --> 00:19:58,860
unbelievable mind control of someone who

542
00:20:05,570 --> 00:20:01,400
just a flag-waving American who spots

543
00:20:07,549 --> 00:20:05,580
UFOs on a Air Force Base and in service

544
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:07,559
to his country says hey yeah they should

545
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:09,000
do don't you want to know what's going

546
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:11,039
on and boom who shows up Connor

547
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,240
intelligence and they start playing

548
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:14,400
these mind games on them how would we

549
00:20:19,610 --> 00:20:16,159
see uh

550
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:19,620
how how would we understand

551
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:22,260
the current round of what's going on is

552
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:23,940
anything different from them from that

553
00:20:29,090 --> 00:20:27,120
and if we wanted to then what I'd say

554
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:29,100
for Lou Elizondo is the first question

555
00:20:34,430 --> 00:20:32,400
is how is this different are you going

556
00:20:36,529 --> 00:20:34,440
to at least come clean that you were to

557
00:20:38,510 --> 00:20:36,539
engage in this kind of massive

558
00:20:41,810 --> 00:20:38,520
misinformation disinformation that's

559
00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:41,820
provable and then you know that would

560
00:20:45,529 --> 00:20:43,320
have to be the starting point for

561
00:20:46,970 --> 00:20:45,539
anything you're going to say now and you

562
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:46,980
know I interviewed a Colonel John

563
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:49,919
Alexander a few years ago and I I don't

564
00:20:54,529 --> 00:20:53,039
know that I trust or believe you know a

565
00:20:57,470 --> 00:20:54,539
lot of his stuff too because again he's

566
00:20:59,330 --> 00:20:57,480
an intelligence guy but at least on the

567
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:59,340
Dodie thing he comes out and says he

568
00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:01,200
should be in prison he should be in

569
00:21:04,970 --> 00:21:03,720
prison for what he admitted to well we

570
00:21:06,590 --> 00:21:04,980
don't have enough to prove it he

571
00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:06,600
acknowledges that he went and did all

572
00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:09,960
this stuff to benowitz the what he gives

573
00:21:16,490 --> 00:21:13,640
is an explanation for why he did it is a

574
00:21:17,810 --> 00:21:16,500
pre-disclosure explanation because

575
00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:17,820
that's the other things that play here

576
00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:20,220
like with the hearings is we have to

577
00:21:27,649 --> 00:21:23,220
realize that everything before you know

578
00:21:29,390 --> 00:21:27,659
2018 into 2017 was before disclosure so

579
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:29,400
it was the the official position was

580
00:21:34,909 --> 00:21:32,400
none of this stuff is real so any kind

581
00:21:37,370 --> 00:21:34,919
of kookification oh that guy's just

582
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:37,380
kooky that guy's crazy was totally

583
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,900
supported by that whole apparatus but

584
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:41,760
after that after it comes out in the New

585
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:44,400
York Times then it it's no longer that

586
00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:45,600
so

587
00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:47,640
I I I've laid a lot on the table there

588
00:21:53,330 --> 00:21:49,620
but not really it's all in this same

589
00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:53,340
thing of like not only why why would we

590
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:56,280
trust them but it's like isn't the

591
00:22:02,770 --> 00:21:59,280
burden of proof on them to show that

592
00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:02,780
this isn't a a completely rigged

593
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:05,580
misinformation game yeah well especially

594
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:08,460
looking at the history of UFO disclosure

595
00:22:15,529 --> 00:22:11,460
I mean looking at Project Blue Book and

596
00:22:18,169 --> 00:22:15,539
just the history of deception and a lack

597
00:22:19,789 --> 00:22:18,179
of honesty uh they're not they have not

598
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:19,799
been forthright historically so why

599
00:22:22,730 --> 00:22:21,000
should we expect they're telling the

600
00:22:23,870 --> 00:22:22,740
full truth now and when you put that in

601
00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:23,880
the context of everything that's been

602
00:22:27,529 --> 00:22:25,140
happening with covid and all that other

603
00:22:30,049 --> 00:22:27,539
stuff consistently we're we're being

604
00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:30,059
told things as true and they're turning

605
00:22:34,370 --> 00:22:32,700
out not to be so true repeatedly so the

606
00:22:36,649 --> 00:22:34,380
burden of proof is on the authorities

607
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:36,659
constantly in my view and that's how I

608
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:38,700
look at it and probably why I've been so

609
00:22:42,890 --> 00:22:41,760
motivated to dig in for myself because I

610
00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:42,900
feel like the so-called authority

611
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,039
figures that we're supposed to trust

612
00:22:47,870 --> 00:22:46,080
repeatedly are not telling the truth or

613
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,880
they're withholding the truth and in

614
00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:49,200
order to get to it ourselves I don't

615
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:50,460
think we can just trust what the media

616
00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:53,580
tells us okay so we have that that's a

617
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:54,840
great point

618
00:23:02,510 --> 00:22:58,140
what are some other ways that you feel

619
00:23:04,490 --> 00:23:02,520
like this book is intersecting with the

620
00:23:06,770 --> 00:23:04,500
public discourse on this topic right now

621
00:23:09,049 --> 00:23:06,780
well to me the other thing that comes up

622
00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:09,059
is what some would call a spiritual war

623
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:11,340
between Good and Evil

624
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:12,960
and on the surface if you just look at

625
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:14,159
what's happening in the world the

626
00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:15,600
Temptation might not be to think about

627
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:18,360
supernatural forces we see individuals

628
00:23:22,370 --> 00:23:20,640
on TV making policy that we may or may

629
00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:22,380
not agree with sometimes we find out

630
00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:23,460
that they're not telling the truth or

631
00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:24,900
that they were very confident about

632
00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:25,980
things that they end up being wrong

633
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:26,940
about

634
00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:29,520
but what I continue to ask given what I

635
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:31,320
now believe about extended Consciousness

636
00:23:36,289 --> 00:23:34,559
and if you think about the brain as an

637
00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:36,299
apparatus that actually receives

638
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:37,740
information

639
00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:39,600
or also could be perceived as a

640
00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:41,400
filtering mechanism meaning there's

641
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:43,320
things that are blocked out but things

642
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:44,640
that can get through

643
00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:46,140
then you might wonder how are people

644
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:48,600
being influenced sometimes consciously

645
00:23:55,789 --> 00:23:52,559
sometimes not consciously to

646
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:55,799
work for forces of what you might call

647
00:24:00,169 --> 00:23:58,799
good or evil and in order to answer that

648
00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:00,179
question in my view we have to get to

649
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:02,580
the metaphysical good evil which is one

650
00:24:06,350 --> 00:24:03,840
of the things I try to get to in the

651
00:24:07,610 --> 00:24:06,360
book is that yes there are multiple

652
00:24:09,470 --> 00:24:07,620
dimensions and yes there are

653
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:09,480
intelligences out there but some of them

654
00:24:14,029 --> 00:24:11,159
appear to be very benevolent and some

655
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:14,039
are completely evil and to me that that

656
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:15,600
can't be completely disconnected from

657
00:24:18,409 --> 00:24:16,799
what's happening in the world I don't

658
00:24:19,789 --> 00:24:18,419
know the exact connection

659
00:24:21,409 --> 00:24:19,799
but there's got to be something there

660
00:24:22,850 --> 00:24:21,419
and as we talked about in my last

661
00:24:24,830 --> 00:24:22,860
interview I tend to be very concerned

662
00:24:27,610 --> 00:24:24,840
about the erosion of Liberties and

663
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:27,620
moving toward a

664
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:30,840
transhumanistic uh orwellian World

665
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:33,900
where's that coming from and at the same

666
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:36,600
time we're not there yet we're not fully

667
00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:38,159
enslaved we do have lots of freedoms

668
00:24:42,830 --> 00:24:39,960
relative to where we could be

669
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:42,840
so if it were fully evil right we

670
00:24:45,169 --> 00:24:43,919
probably would already be in this

671
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:45,179
enslaved State there has to be a

672
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:47,279
balancing act too and that makes me

673
00:24:50,269 --> 00:24:48,960
really curious about what our role is in

674
00:24:52,250 --> 00:24:50,279
that and what I conclude in the book is

675
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:52,260
that there's only so much we can control

676
00:24:55,789 --> 00:24:54,179
in the external world but we can what we

677
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:55,799
can control is ourselves and what we

678
00:24:59,690 --> 00:24:58,320
decide to tap into individually that

679
00:25:01,490 --> 00:24:59,700
we're going to try to tap into what we

680
00:25:03,049 --> 00:25:01,500
call good and try to discern so we're

681
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:03,059
not manipulated and I'll just pause

682
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:06,480
there no don't pause there keep going we

683
00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:10,320
gotta know how you arrive at that kind

684
00:25:15,950 --> 00:25:13,380
of metaphysical understanding of good

685
00:25:19,130 --> 00:25:15,960
and evil as it as it relates to this

686
00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:19,140
topic it is the like you said it is the

687
00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:20,700
fundamental question how are you

688
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,100
breaking down the data how would you and

689
00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:25,440
how is the way that you're breaking down

690
00:25:29,870 --> 00:25:28,020
the data how is it different from the

691
00:25:31,730 --> 00:25:29,880
way you see other people breaking down

692
00:25:34,010 --> 00:25:31,740
the data and because this is directly

693
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:34,020
relevant to the conversation right is it

694
00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:36,960
a blob of Consciousness kind of thing is

695
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:40,620
it do it thou Wilt kind of thing is it

696
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,220
you know E.T is good the space Brothers

697
00:25:49,549 --> 00:25:47,039
uh save the planet is it you know this

698
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:49,559
is the discourse so the fact that you're

699
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:51,120
tackling this again that's what I'm

700
00:25:55,549 --> 00:25:52,799
saying this is so

701
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:55,559
unique it shouldn't be so unique but

702
00:25:59,210 --> 00:25:56,940
it's tremendous that you're doing this

703
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:59,220
how do you break it down how do you make

704
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:00,840
the case either way in the book why do

705
00:26:04,130 --> 00:26:02,460
you come down the way you do yeah

706
00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:04,140
there's so many directions I want to go

707
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,840
here let me preface what I'm about to

708
00:26:10,250 --> 00:26:08,640
say with the fact again that our

709
00:26:12,409 --> 00:26:10,260
perception is limited

710
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:12,419
and I want to talk about

711
00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:14,700
also the idea that our perception can be

712
00:26:17,930 --> 00:26:16,860
skewed by these intelligences so

713
00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:17,940
something you've talked about in your

714
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:19,020
show and I talk about in my books

715
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:20,159
because we have to start with this and

716
00:26:24,649 --> 00:26:21,779
we talk about Good and Evil

717
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:24,659
things like screen memories and

718
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:26,400
shape-shifting

719
00:26:30,649 --> 00:26:28,799
so a screen memory you had Michael

720
00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:30,659
elland on your show a few years ago he's

721
00:26:36,169 --> 00:26:34,020
famous for his work with owls where owls

722
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:36,179
seem to appear at UFO encounter sites

723
00:26:39,470 --> 00:26:37,679
and then a person might go under

724
00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:39,480
hypnosis to try to uncover what happened

725
00:26:42,890 --> 00:26:40,980
during missing time that might be

726
00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:42,900
associated with it so the person saw an

727
00:26:45,649 --> 00:26:44,760
owl and then a few hours go by and they

728
00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:45,659
don't know what happened during that

729
00:26:49,310 --> 00:26:47,580
time this happens in UFO encounters very

730
00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:49,320
often the time seems to be missing

731
00:26:53,690 --> 00:26:52,260
there's a memory Gap and they go under

732
00:26:55,370 --> 00:26:53,700
hypnosis to try to see what happened

733
00:26:57,289 --> 00:26:55,380
during that missing time

734
00:26:58,669 --> 00:26:57,299
and hypnotherapist might try to guide

735
00:27:00,169 --> 00:26:58,679
them and say well can you describe the

736
00:27:01,909 --> 00:27:00,179
owl that you're seeing and the person

737
00:27:03,470 --> 00:27:01,919
will say wait a second this isn't an owl

738
00:27:05,330 --> 00:27:03,480
this is a gray alien

739
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:05,340
okay and it's known as a screen memory

740
00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:06,240
meaning the thing that the person

741
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:07,980
consciously remembered is not what is

742
00:27:11,090 --> 00:27:09,779
uncovered when the memory is more fully

743
00:27:13,070 --> 00:27:11,100
unlocked

744
00:27:15,289 --> 00:27:13,080
and this ties into

745
00:27:17,690 --> 00:27:15,299
what many people have reported and even

746
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,700
John Mack the former head of Psychiatry

747
00:27:20,990 --> 00:27:19,440
at Harvard Pulitzer Prize winner has

748
00:27:22,909 --> 00:27:21,000
reported in the people that he studied

749
00:27:24,590 --> 00:27:22,919
who claimed they had abductions that

750
00:27:26,930 --> 00:27:24,600
these alien beings could shape-shift

751
00:27:28,610 --> 00:27:26,940
that they could appear one way and then

752
00:27:30,289 --> 00:27:28,620
appear another way and many people have

753
00:27:32,810 --> 00:27:30,299
anecdotally reported this I mean I can't

754
00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:32,820
show you the scientific statistical data

755
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:34,919
on this but it's reported repeatedly now

756
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,260
if we accept that to be true

757
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:39,840
then with regard to Good and Evil we

758
00:27:43,130 --> 00:27:42,000
have to also be wary of the trickster

759
00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:43,140
beings

760
00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:46,260
who could manifest one way

761
00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:48,179
but maybe they're not that way

762
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:50,520
so as in the in the quest to look at

763
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:51,720
Good and Evil we have to be very

764
00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:52,799
Discerning and I don't have a great

765
00:27:56,510 --> 00:27:54,779
answer for that because these beings

766
00:27:58,130 --> 00:27:56,520
seem to be so much more intelligent than

767
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,140
we are if they have the ability to

768
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:00,720
manipulate our memory to create missing

769
00:28:05,090 --> 00:28:03,840
time to appear one way to us and I'll

770
00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:05,100
give some other anecdotes for my book

771
00:28:08,810 --> 00:28:07,140
again these are anecdotes but it's come

772
00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:08,820
up multiple times

773
00:28:13,370 --> 00:28:10,500
where

774
00:28:15,470 --> 00:28:13,380
uh there's a sexual encounter

775
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:15,480
with a woman and what appears to be a

776
00:28:20,570 --> 00:28:17,940
man and then the woman realizes that

777
00:28:22,970 --> 00:28:20,580
that apparent man is some sort of an

778
00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:22,980
alien being but seems to be able to

779
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:24,539
shape-shift

780
00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:27,360
in a way that manifests as what the

781
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:28,980
woman would consider to be attractive

782
00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:30,600
this also happened with a man I

783
00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:32,100
mentioned in my book Matthew Roberts an

784
00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:35,340
ex-navy guy who had an experience where

785
00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:37,500
the being during it it was sort of like

786
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:39,240
a dream-like state but not fully a dream

787
00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:42,480
the being was sort of switching its face

788
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:44,039
and then landed on his ex-girlfriend

789
00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:47,520
during a sexual encounter so I give that

790
00:28:50,570 --> 00:28:49,260
preface to say

791
00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:50,580
we don't know what we're dealing with

792
00:28:53,570 --> 00:28:51,720
all the time we're dealing with

793
00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:53,580
extremely advanced stuff and I'll let

794
00:28:59,810 --> 00:28:56,100
you respond to that before I go on

795
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:59,820
uh well I guess I'd do it a couple of

796
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:00,720
ways

797
00:29:06,889 --> 00:29:03,600
you were so tuned into like such an

798
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:06,899
important issue because I I almost feel

799
00:29:10,490 --> 00:29:08,880
like I want you to come around the curve

800
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:10,500
to the other side of it because what

801
00:29:14,269 --> 00:29:12,000
you've laid on the table is really great

802
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,279
and that's that we have to have this

803
00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:16,320
level of discernment because we already

804
00:29:22,370 --> 00:29:20,220
have evidence of uh mental slash

805
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:22,380
Consciousness whatever that means

806
00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:25,260
manipulation at this level far beyond

807
00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:29,220
what we know but I guess I will Babble

808
00:29:32,750 --> 00:29:31,020
on for a minute because this is like

809
00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:32,760
seems like an interesting point that I

810
00:29:37,490 --> 00:29:34,140
don't hear a lot of people talking about

811
00:29:41,149 --> 00:29:37,500
but you just laid it right out

812
00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:41,159
I look at like uh Sirhan Sirhan and

813
00:29:46,090 --> 00:29:44,220
anyone who's looked at kind of the old

814
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:46,100
conspiracy stuff

815
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:49,380
understands you know sirhacharan is the

816
00:29:54,049 --> 00:29:52,080
guy who shot uh Robert Kennedy right

817
00:29:56,510 --> 00:29:54,059
assassinated apparently and he's a

818
00:29:58,250 --> 00:29:56,520
Manchurian Candidate it's just clear as

819
00:29:59,870 --> 00:29:58,260
day couldn't be clear that he's a

820
00:30:01,909 --> 00:29:59,880
Manchurian Candidate and there's even

821
00:30:03,529 --> 00:30:01,919
evidence people have done the work that

822
00:30:05,450 --> 00:30:03,539
you can kind of pinpoint the time when

823
00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:05,460
he was pulled into the MK Ultra program

824
00:30:09,649 --> 00:30:07,860
and the reason we know that is like they

825
00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:09,659
found more bullets

826
00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:12,779
in the kitchen where Kennedy was shot

827
00:30:17,570 --> 00:30:15,240
that were in the gun and number two

828
00:30:19,789 --> 00:30:17,580
there were eyewitness eyewitness

829
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,799
is there including you know like the old

830
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,600
football player Rosie Greer who grabbed

831
00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:23,760
his arm right after the first shot all

832
00:30:27,529 --> 00:30:25,320
this stuff Manchurian Candidate

833
00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:27,539
Manchurian Candidate where a lot of

834
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:29,880
people don't go with that is

835
00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:32,640
if that was the state of the art

836
00:30:38,409 --> 00:30:35,880
technology of our intelligence agencies

837
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:38,419
our alphabet soup intelligence agencies

838
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:40,740
60 years ago

839
00:30:45,289 --> 00:30:43,679
then where are we at and I put that on

840
00:30:48,289 --> 00:30:45,299
the table because as you're doing so

841
00:30:51,010 --> 00:30:48,299
okay now let's extend that to

842
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:51,020
ET whatever that means who we understand

843
00:30:56,269 --> 00:30:53,279
intuitively by all this stuff and by

844
00:30:58,730 --> 00:30:56,279
reports is more advanced on that

845
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,740
Continuum of mental manipulation

846
00:31:02,269 --> 00:31:00,960
Consciousness manipulation and we have

847
00:31:04,370 --> 00:31:02,279
it all over the place like you're saying

848
00:31:06,169 --> 00:31:04,380
screen memories and my go-to on that is

849
00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:06,179
always it related to the ones you

850
00:31:09,889 --> 00:31:07,740
mentioned in the book but you know Ray

851
00:31:12,049 --> 00:31:09,899
Hernandez his wife is having this

852
00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:12,059
incredible kind of traumatic encounter

853
00:31:17,450 --> 00:31:14,340
and he walks halfway down the stairs and

854
00:31:19,070 --> 00:31:17,460
then he turns around he says oh that's

855
00:31:21,769 --> 00:31:19,080
nothing the voice inside his head his

856
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:21,779
own voice says oh that's nothing that's

857
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:24,360
silly go back upstairs and go to bed and

858
00:31:28,669 --> 00:31:27,360
he does right so that's like classic to

859
00:31:29,570 --> 00:31:28,679
me but that's repeated over and over

860
00:31:33,169 --> 00:31:29,580
again

861
00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:33,179
or you look at uh you know I won't go on

862
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:34,260
and on because you already made the

863
00:31:39,169 --> 00:31:35,820
point we're making the same point but

864
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:39,179
what do you think about that in terms of

865
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:42,960
to what extent have we Advanced our

866
00:31:49,789 --> 00:31:45,720
technology since we seem to be imitating

867
00:31:52,009 --> 00:31:49,799
or we seem to be in this technology

868
00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:52,019
exchange with these Advanced

869
00:31:56,210 --> 00:31:54,299
civilizations that pops up all over the

870
00:31:59,450 --> 00:31:56,220
place but I don't hear a lot of people

871
00:32:01,850 --> 00:31:59,460
talking about the technology exchange as

872
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:01,860
it has to do with Consciousness

873
00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:04,559
manipulation what that what might that

874
00:32:09,009 --> 00:32:07,140
mean and then back to the bigger

875
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:09,019
question that you're

876
00:32:16,430 --> 00:32:13,760
raising is how do we then still apply

877
00:32:19,009 --> 00:32:16,440
this level of discernment that you're

878
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,019
looking for and I'm looking for and I'll

879
00:32:26,029 --> 00:32:21,840
just end with saying I think you're spot

880
00:32:28,909 --> 00:32:26,039
on 100 that we still can it is still

881
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:28,919
very possible it is the essence of who

882
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:31,679
we are to always to be able to discern

883
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:36,480
if we apply the right internal processes

884
00:32:42,529 --> 00:32:39,600
to ourselves so what do you think about

885
00:32:44,509 --> 00:32:42,539
some of those issues yeah

886
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:44,519
well I think about mind control

887
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:47,279
generally one at the level of secret

888
00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:48,960
programs that have been discla

889
00:32:51,950 --> 00:32:50,760
Declassified but they're probably other

890
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:51,960
secret programs that we don't know about

891
00:32:55,250 --> 00:32:53,760
and I say all this stuff as someone

892
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:55,260
who's not an Insider like I don't have

893
00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:56,640
any government experience so I'm just

894
00:33:00,190 --> 00:32:58,260
I'm guessing and there's probably a lot

895
00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:00,200
I don't know I should just clarify that

896
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:02,340
uh but

897
00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:04,320
we know what was going on with MK Ultra

898
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,880
in terms of being able to manipulate

899
00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:07,679
people and dissociate the personality

900
00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:09,299
that's key is to create multiple

901
00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:11,460
personalities where the personalities

902
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:12,840
are essentially hidden from each other

903
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:14,820
and when you could you switch one

904
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:16,260
personality on it would have certain

905
00:33:20,269 --> 00:33:18,720
traits that had been programmed into it

906
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:20,279
so you could have someone that is a

907
00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:22,140
Secret Killer but then its other

908
00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:24,600
personality is a normal person so given

909
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:26,220
that that technology exists again it's

910
00:33:28,909 --> 00:33:27,360
very difficult to know what's going on

911
00:33:30,830 --> 00:33:28,919
in the world because you could have

912
00:33:33,889 --> 00:33:30,840
someone who has had a mind control has

913
00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:33,899
been undergoing mind control really not

914
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:36,600
due to their own consent and one of

915
00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:38,159
these programs gets switched on and we

916
00:33:42,110 --> 00:33:40,380
don't know how advanced that is so I

917
00:33:45,049 --> 00:33:42,120
think about it from that lens of what

918
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:45,059
individuals are being programmed and

919
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:46,799
maybe that could relate to E.T maybe

920
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:48,480
they're tapping into dark Forces I don't

921
00:33:52,970 --> 00:33:50,700
know but uh so there's this individual

922
00:33:55,130 --> 00:33:52,980
level and then the other level is

923
00:33:56,750 --> 00:33:55,140
Collective mind control and when I think

924
00:33:59,810 --> 00:33:56,760
of that it's like what's been going on

925
00:34:01,970 --> 00:33:59,820
with covid how can they use mass media

926
00:34:03,230 --> 00:34:01,980
and fear in particular to get people

927
00:34:05,149 --> 00:34:03,240
into this state where maybe they're

928
00:34:06,769 --> 00:34:05,159
having a mini dissociation because it's

929
00:34:08,270 --> 00:34:06,779
often called trauma-based mind control

930
00:34:10,609 --> 00:34:08,280
and I think about that a lot because

931
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,619
it's the next trauma after the next on

932
00:34:15,409 --> 00:34:12,480
the news and what's that doing to put

933
00:34:16,970 --> 00:34:15,419
people in a fear based State and then

934
00:34:18,889 --> 00:34:16,980
making them more susceptible to whatever

935
00:34:20,210 --> 00:34:18,899
the messages are it's almost like a

936
00:34:22,490 --> 00:34:20,220
hypnotic

937
00:34:24,349 --> 00:34:22,500
form of Mind Control

938
00:34:26,270 --> 00:34:24,359
so that that's what I think about in

939
00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:26,280
response to your question Alex

940
00:34:34,190 --> 00:34:30,540
okay but Mark at the end of the day you

941
00:34:38,329 --> 00:34:34,200
come down on the side of good as being

942
00:34:39,950 --> 00:34:38,339
kind of the The Meta yeah why how do you

943
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:39,960
how do you get there with all that other

944
00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:41,760
stuff that's going on

945
00:34:47,450 --> 00:34:44,220
well it's an inference it's an inference

946
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:47,460
based on I guess two things one is my

947
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,960
own internal state

948
00:34:52,609 --> 00:34:50,399
because that's the only thing I only I

949
00:34:53,810 --> 00:34:52,619
truly know and I know what my emotions

950
00:34:55,609 --> 00:34:53,820
are like

951
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:55,619
and when I get pulled into a dark State

952
00:34:59,569 --> 00:34:57,240
versus a light state

953
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,579
and I just have this this intuition that

954
00:35:03,230 --> 00:35:01,440
the light State the love state is the

955
00:35:05,210 --> 00:35:03,240
one that we're headed towards and that

956
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:05,220
intuition seems to be validated by

957
00:35:08,569 --> 00:35:06,240
looking at the people that have had

958
00:35:10,130 --> 00:35:08,579
spiritually transformative experiences

959
00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:10,140
so look at the near-death experience

960
00:35:13,310 --> 00:35:11,940
people say it's ineffable I can't use

961
00:35:14,930 --> 00:35:13,320
words to describe it but it's

962
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:14,940
unconditional love

963
00:35:19,130 --> 00:35:16,560
people say that in certain meditation

964
00:35:20,569 --> 00:35:19,140
experiences certain psychedelics I had a

965
00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:20,579
glimpse of that that I talked about in

966
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:21,900
my second book and end upside down

967
00:35:25,069 --> 00:35:23,520
living and I've been asked about it only

968
00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:25,079
a little Glimpse during meditation where

969
00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:26,460
I felt this sensation I don't really

970
00:35:30,829 --> 00:35:28,140
know how to explain it but it was beyond

971
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:30,839
love it was just this total Bliss out

972
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:33,599
so given all of that I think that we are

973
00:35:38,450 --> 00:35:36,720
that's the the high level is good

974
00:35:40,250 --> 00:35:38,460
but there's there's something in between

975
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:40,260
that's getting in the way very clearly

976
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:42,720
and this leads me into

977
00:35:45,589 --> 00:35:44,160
what I was trying to get at before

978
00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:45,599
before I got into screen memories and

979
00:35:49,370 --> 00:35:47,820
all that of where I think I'm talking

980
00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:49,380
about things that I don't see as much

981
00:35:53,810 --> 00:35:51,420
elsewhere but I see you talking about it

982
00:35:55,130 --> 00:35:53,820
a lot which is what what evil actually

983
00:35:59,450 --> 00:35:55,140
is

984
00:36:01,370 --> 00:35:59,460
and you've gotten into some of the the

985
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:01,380
ritual abuse topics on your show that's

986
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:02,640
something that I've looked at and talked

987
00:36:06,170 --> 00:36:04,800
about in the book it's a level of evil

988
00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:06,180
that most people cannot relate to

989
00:36:10,190 --> 00:36:08,700
because most people are in my view are

990
00:36:11,810 --> 00:36:10,200
are pretty good

991
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:11,820
I mean if everyone has the dark and

992
00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:13,260
Light Within them but some of this stuff

993
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:15,480
the violation of other beings is

994
00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:17,040
incomprehensible and it's it's a

995
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:18,660
paradigm shift to learn about that stuff

996
00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:20,400
and what I find is that people don't

997
00:36:25,069 --> 00:36:22,440
want to go there which is understandable

998
00:36:27,170 --> 00:36:25,079
because it's so disturbing but it's also

999
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:27,180
very problematic because then one

1000
00:36:30,170 --> 00:36:28,800
spectrum of good evil is totally off

1001
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:30,180
base

1002
00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:31,680
and I see it happening all the time

1003
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:32,700
where

1004
00:36:36,589 --> 00:36:34,619
you might see people in the public who

1005
00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:36,599
they appear to be very mean or something

1006
00:36:41,150 --> 00:36:38,940
and that's evil like yeah sure that's

1007
00:36:42,650 --> 00:36:41,160
not good that you know we could say

1008
00:36:44,810 --> 00:36:42,660
that's bad but on the spectrum of what

1009
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,820
you know what real evil is

1010
00:36:48,890 --> 00:36:46,800
it's nowhere close

1011
00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:48,900
and when you know that that level of

1012
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:50,700
evil exists

1013
00:36:54,589 --> 00:36:52,800
it opens up the possibility of all sorts

1014
00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:54,599
of Nefarious things which start to make

1015
00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:55,980
the world make a lot more sense actually

1016
00:36:59,450 --> 00:36:58,260
it becomes very conspiratorial but you

1017
00:37:03,589 --> 00:36:59,460
can't get there unless you know that

1018
00:37:04,730 --> 00:37:03,599
this level of evil does exist so for me

1019
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:04,740
because I've known about some of this

1020
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:06,240
stuff for a few years and I mention it

1021
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,920
very briefly in the Liberty book the one

1022
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:09,839
that came right before this I do it more

1023
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:11,760
extensively in this book but I always

1024
00:37:17,569 --> 00:37:14,880
try to play this this balance of wanting

1025
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:17,579
to express that these things exist but

1026
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:19,680
not turning people away and I'll I'll

1027
00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:21,180
say one last thing before I pause and

1028
00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:22,380
some of the feedback I've gotten about

1029
00:37:26,329 --> 00:37:24,300
this book is that some people had to

1030
00:37:28,250 --> 00:37:26,339
skip certain parts which is interesting

1031
00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:28,260
for me because I go into the details of

1032
00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:31,740
what what this evil means and one of the

1033
00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:33,720
conflicts I had in publishing it was am

1034
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,400
I am I letting them off the hook too

1035
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,680
much am I not exposing enough I was

1036
00:37:41,089 --> 00:37:39,359
concerned about that I wanted to give

1037
00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:41,099
the essence but not turn people away and

1038
00:37:45,230 --> 00:37:43,380
in some cases they even had to skip

1039
00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:45,240
only small parts of the book it's not a

1040
00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:47,880
major part but it's Central to this to

1041
00:37:52,910 --> 00:37:49,740
examining the world and thinking about

1042
00:37:56,329 --> 00:37:52,920
Good and Evil metaphysically so

1043
00:37:59,630 --> 00:37:56,339
again this to me is one of these Central

1044
00:38:03,470 --> 00:37:59,640
issues that is fully in the discourse

1045
00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:03,480
right now and you're so brave I can't

1046
00:38:07,130 --> 00:38:05,640
think of any other word to say it to

1047
00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:07,140
bring it to the surface like this

1048
00:38:12,410 --> 00:38:10,200
because it's funny how it is

1049
00:38:15,290 --> 00:38:12,420
hidden beneath things whether it's

1050
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:15,300
either the the space Brothers thing and

1051
00:38:19,790 --> 00:38:16,500
I was just listening to an interview

1052
00:38:22,970 --> 00:38:19,800
with a very excellent Ryan Bledsoe I I

1053
00:38:25,490 --> 00:38:22,980
just kind of feel like he's trying to be

1054
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:25,500
totally out there but at the same time

1055
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:27,660
however you talk about this it just

1056
00:38:33,050 --> 00:38:30,900
becomes contradictory in terms of the

1057
00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:33,060
space Brothers they're here to save the

1058
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:35,820
planet they're here to protect us and

1059
00:38:41,810 --> 00:38:38,660
then but I'm not going to talk about

1060
00:38:43,609 --> 00:38:41,820
shape-shifting reptilian aliens that are

1061
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,619
raping people I'm not going to talk

1062
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:45,599
about the Lost pregnancies I'm not going

1063
00:38:50,690 --> 00:38:48,240
to talk about the deception and

1064
00:38:54,050 --> 00:38:50,700
I just had an interview with Dr Bob

1065
00:38:56,089 --> 00:38:54,060
Davis who was part of the free survey

1066
00:38:58,849 --> 00:38:56,099
you know at Ray Hernandez and they did a

1067
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:58,859
survey kind of mirroring the near-death

1068
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,680
experience survey work that Jeff long

1069
00:39:04,430 --> 00:39:03,359
did which I think is incredibly

1070
00:39:07,310 --> 00:39:04,440
important

1071
00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:07,320
but you know when Bob Davis and I were

1072
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:09,180
talking one of the things that came up

1073
00:39:14,690 --> 00:39:12,000
is I kind of pushed him as like hey

1074
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:14,700
let's say you're right and it's 80

1075
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:16,800
percent positive

1076
00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:19,500
what the hell does that mean anyway if

1077
00:39:23,810 --> 00:39:21,960
there is this other uh benevolent part

1078
00:39:26,030 --> 00:39:23,820
out there that is

1079
00:39:28,490 --> 00:39:26,040
you know really really bad or what we'd

1080
00:39:31,849 --> 00:39:28,500
call evil

1081
00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:31,859
until we kind of the statistics don't

1082
00:39:37,609 --> 00:39:34,440
really matter what matters is what

1083
00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:37,619
you're grappling with in in a really

1084
00:39:42,609 --> 00:39:40,500
important way is what is the nature then

1085
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:42,619
of this

1086
00:39:48,589 --> 00:39:46,079
structure of Consciousness like

1087
00:39:50,569 --> 00:39:48,599
I I'll kind of I'm pounding on the same

1088
00:39:52,730 --> 00:39:50,579
issue but it is the central issue it's

1089
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,740
good E.T versus bad ET

1090
00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:54,960
yeah well one of the things I highlight

1091
00:39:58,849 --> 00:39:56,520
in the book when I talk about the free

1092
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:58,859
study and I should commend those who did

1093
00:40:01,670 --> 00:40:00,240
the free study because it's one of the

1094
00:40:04,609 --> 00:40:01,680
few examples where we have many many

1095
00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:04,619
cases of contact UFO contact but beyond

1096
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:06,300
so for me as a researcher I don't like

1097
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:07,920
to focus everything on one anecdote and

1098
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,119
that was a great way to say look there's

1099
00:40:13,309 --> 00:40:11,280
three thousand plus cases here they do

1100
00:40:14,690 --> 00:40:13,319
tend to focus on the positive cases but

1101
00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:14,700
what I highlight in the book is yeah

1102
00:40:18,109 --> 00:40:16,200
it's a small percentage but they do say

1103
00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:18,119
they're malevolent beings some of them

1104
00:40:22,670 --> 00:40:20,700
and you don't need a lot of malevolence

1105
00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:22,680
to create big damage

1106
00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:24,780
so

1107
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:28,680
about in The Liberty book where

1108
00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:30,240
and if I'm getting off topic let me know

1109
00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:32,220
but I think this is also Central where

1110
00:40:35,809 --> 00:40:33,660
you could have just a small number of

1111
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:35,819
people with really horrible intent and

1112
00:40:40,130 --> 00:40:38,040
if people around that evil don't see it

1113
00:40:41,329 --> 00:40:40,140
then they can be easily manipulated and

1114
00:40:44,089 --> 00:40:41,339
thinking they're doing something that's

1115
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:44,099
good and just following orders

1116
00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:47,040
and not being able to comprehend

1117
00:40:51,470 --> 00:40:49,500
uh that there could be deception behind

1118
00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:51,480
it so it's critical that yeah there

1119
00:40:55,550 --> 00:40:53,640
could be a lot of benevolent beings and

1120
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:55,560
there seem to be if you just look at the

1121
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,119
many many cases people have had positive

1122
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:59,040
experiences but there are some negative

1123
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:00,480
ones too and we have to think about what

1124
00:41:05,089 --> 00:41:02,160
that means in terms of what they could

1125
00:41:07,130 --> 00:41:05,099
try to enact and I'm I'm now thinking

1126
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:07,140
about this you know the theories about

1127
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,880
alien abductions it relates to what

1128
00:41:12,290 --> 00:41:10,319
you've been talking about what are

1129
00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:12,300
abductions are they good for us are they

1130
00:41:15,530 --> 00:41:14,040
bad for us and you had some great

1131
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,540
interviews several years ago that I went

1132
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:16,800
back and listened to with the Mary

1133
00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:20,160
Rodwell David Jacobs debate on this so

1134
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:22,260
Mary Rodwell and also John Mack to an

1135
00:41:26,329 --> 00:41:23,280
extent

1136
00:41:27,710 --> 00:41:26,339
viewed abductions and I assume your

1137
00:41:30,829 --> 00:41:27,720
listeners know about this but an

1138
00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:30,839
abduction is when a person is taken

1139
00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:32,940
apparently aboard a craft and they have

1140
00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:34,440
all sorts of procedures done on them

1141
00:41:37,370 --> 00:41:35,880
this is typically against their will

1142
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,380
although some people argue that at a

1143
00:41:40,430 --> 00:41:38,880
sole level they agreed to it but it

1144
00:41:43,609 --> 00:41:40,440
doesn't appear to be voluntary at the

1145
00:41:45,470 --> 00:41:43,619
time and sperm and eggs are taken there

1146
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:45,480
seems to be a hybridization program that

1147
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:47,160
people talk about where the alien beings

1148
00:41:51,470 --> 00:41:49,260
are creating a species that's partially

1149
00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:51,480
and part human it sounds insane but even

1150
00:41:55,849 --> 00:41:52,980
John Mack from Harvard was talking about

1151
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:55,859
this and like crazy implications but the

1152
00:42:00,650 --> 00:41:58,560
question is what is this good for

1153
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,660
Humanity or bad for Humanity so in one

1154
00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:02,880
of John Mac's books he says that you

1155
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:04,380
know he gathers from talking to lots of

1156
00:42:08,270 --> 00:42:06,000
abductees that this is part of an

1157
00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:08,280
evolutionary insurance program

1158
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:10,500
where if things really go Haywire on the

1159
00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:12,000
planet and they need to repopulate then

1160
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:13,140
they're going to have a species that's

1161
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:15,119
hybrid and some people have also talked

1162
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:17,280
about seeding other planets with this

1163
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:19,200
hybrid species that the advanced beings

1164
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:20,880
are doing

1165
00:42:23,390 --> 00:42:21,599
um

1166
00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:23,400
so that's one side of it that's more

1167
00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:24,900
benevolent sometimes people come back

1168
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:27,119
with Miracle healings and sometimes they

1169
00:42:30,530 --> 00:42:29,040
have spiritual Awakenings as a result of

1170
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,540
this stuff and I should mention the work

1171
00:42:34,130 --> 00:42:32,160
of Kenneth ring who studied near-death

1172
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:34,140
experiences University of Connecticut he

1173
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:36,240
wrote a book called the Omega project in

1174
00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:38,160
1992 where he compared near-death

1175
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,680
experiences to UFO encounters and he

1176
00:42:43,609 --> 00:42:42,000
found that there were many commonalities

1177
00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:43,619
even though the experiences themselves

1178
00:42:46,910 --> 00:42:45,540
were different there was an element of

1179
00:42:48,890 --> 00:42:46,920
trauma to both of them in a near-death

1180
00:42:51,230 --> 00:42:48,900
experience you almost die and with the

1181
00:42:53,390 --> 00:42:51,240
UFO encounter in an abduction you're you

1182
00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:53,400
know operated on and so forth but

1183
00:42:57,170 --> 00:42:55,260
typically people became more spiritual

1184
00:42:58,609 --> 00:42:57,180
and not more religious but more

1185
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,619
spiritual is what he found following

1186
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:00,240
these experiences sometimes they had

1187
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:03,119
even Kundalini Awakenings so these are

1188
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:04,319
very positive things in terms of

1189
00:43:09,410 --> 00:43:07,200
Awakening the planet because if a person

1190
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:09,420
has such a shift their whole life

1191
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,520
changes and that's what Dr Grayson finds

1192
00:43:15,050 --> 00:43:13,680
at UVA as a psychiatrist their

1193
00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:15,060
priorities change when they have these

1194
00:43:18,770 --> 00:43:16,980
spiritual Awakenings so that's the

1195
00:43:21,170 --> 00:43:18,780
positive side of all this

1196
00:43:23,390 --> 00:43:21,180
Dr David Jacobs from Temple University

1197
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:23,400
and also bud Hopkins and other UFO

1198
00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:25,680
researcher was sort of on the side have

1199
00:43:29,450 --> 00:43:27,780
a different take on on these experiences

1200
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,460
which even John Mack would acknowledge

1201
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,920
there was a lot of trauma that can come

1202
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:33,599
from this and if people didn't properly

1203
00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:35,220
integrate the trauma he acknowledged

1204
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,540
they could have a really hard time with

1205
00:43:40,609 --> 00:43:38,640
this this could be bad for their psyche

1206
00:43:43,309 --> 00:43:40,619
but where Jacobson to an extent Bud

1207
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,319
Hopkins go is that this is this is a

1208
00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:45,599
dark agenda that they're not creating

1209
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:47,220
hybrids to help Humanity but this is

1210
00:43:50,510 --> 00:43:48,960
about planetary takeover that's what

1211
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:50,520
David Jacobs talks about in his book

1212
00:43:55,490 --> 00:43:53,520
walking Among Us written in 2015. now

1213
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:55,500
what I often think about is David Jacobs

1214
00:43:59,690 --> 00:43:57,599
wrote that book in 2015 John Mack passed

1215
00:44:01,849 --> 00:43:59,700
away in 2004. so I wonder what he'd

1216
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:01,859
think now because David Jacobs has said

1217
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,319
that what he's hearing from abductees

1218
00:44:10,010 --> 00:44:06,839
is that their story is changing

1219
00:44:11,870 --> 00:44:10,020
over time it has shifted where the

1220
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,880
abductees are starting to and I will

1221
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:13,440
preface this by saying it sounds insane

1222
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:15,060
they're telling him that they're

1223
00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:17,700
training the hybrid beings to be more

1224
00:44:20,450 --> 00:44:19,020
human because since they don't live here

1225
00:44:22,490 --> 00:44:20,460
they don't really know how to interact

1226
00:44:24,109 --> 00:44:22,500
and he gets into some crazy sounding

1227
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:24,119
details transcripts of what these

1228
00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:27,359
abductees are saying of teaching human

1229
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:29,880
alien hybrids the very Basics about how

1230
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:31,440
to be a human and to live on this planet

1231
00:44:37,010 --> 00:44:33,839
he actually calls them hybrids the

1232
00:44:39,650 --> 00:44:37,020
advanced hybrids and the goal he says uh

1233
00:44:40,609 --> 00:44:39,660
based on what people told him is to

1234
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:40,619
create a hybrid that is

1235
00:44:44,990 --> 00:44:42,720
indistinguishable from human beings

1236
00:44:47,089 --> 00:44:45,000
on the surface but they have some kind

1237
00:44:48,530 --> 00:44:47,099
of an enhanced mental capacity an

1238
00:44:50,990 --> 00:44:48,540
ability to use mind control and

1239
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:51,000
telepathy and they tend to have a lack

1240
00:44:55,130 --> 00:44:53,040
of empathy which could be considered on

1241
00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:55,140
the on the spectrum of psychopathy like

1242
00:44:58,730 --> 00:44:57,420
a psychopath and so he sees this in

1243
00:45:01,609 --> 00:44:58,740
totally and malevolent way that they're

1244
00:45:03,650 --> 00:45:01,619
here to take over now I don't know

1245
00:45:05,630 --> 00:45:03,660
where I fall on this because it could be

1246
00:45:07,069 --> 00:45:05,640
that some all of them are true to some

1247
00:45:08,569 --> 00:45:07,079
extent you could have different species

1248
00:45:09,890 --> 00:45:08,579
that have different agendas you could

1249
00:45:11,569 --> 00:45:09,900
have different beings within different

1250
00:45:13,490 --> 00:45:11,579
species that have different agendas just

1251
00:45:15,950 --> 00:45:13,500
like on our planet we see a big Spectrum

1252
00:45:18,290 --> 00:45:15,960
we have Psychopaths and we have saints

1253
00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:18,300
so it's very difficult I notice a

1254
00:45:22,010 --> 00:45:19,980
tendency for people to try to make this

1255
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,020
a monolithic phenomenon that is just one

1256
00:45:26,089 --> 00:45:24,720
thing they with a capital T I think it's

1257
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:26,099
it's diverse

1258
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:27,839
and so I'll pause there

1259
00:45:32,569 --> 00:45:30,960
uh yeah and I I appreciate you pausing

1260
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:32,579
but don't feel like you have to because

1261
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,040
I mean you're on a roll and it's gonna

1262
00:45:39,290 --> 00:45:37,920
be dense no matter how we do it so let

1263
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:39,300
it fly don't worry about that of course

1264
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,800
this could be level three that's the

1265
00:45:44,270 --> 00:45:42,480
only way we can talk about this I mean

1266
00:45:47,329 --> 00:45:44,280
we could take any one of the points that

1267
00:45:50,270 --> 00:45:47,339
you just made and dissect them for like

1268
00:45:52,510 --> 00:45:50,280
an hour I again the one thing I'm always

1269
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:52,520
coming back to in the back of my mind is

1270
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:56,160
this Central most important thing about

1271
00:46:02,870 --> 00:45:59,280
this book upside down contact and that

1272
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,880
is how do you then process this go

1273
00:46:07,069 --> 00:46:04,560
through the discernment process that

1274
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:07,079
you're going to going through and try

1275
00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:10,260
and figure out how you leave your live

1276
00:46:13,790 --> 00:46:12,300
your life you know do you just kind of

1277
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,800
give up and say well

1278
00:46:18,890 --> 00:46:15,839
I don't have any control forget it

1279
00:46:21,589 --> 00:46:18,900
whatever the my alien overlords you know

1280
00:46:24,589 --> 00:46:21,599
want I guess I'll just wait and see or

1281
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:24,599
do what thou Wilt you know let's be very

1282
00:46:29,210 --> 00:46:27,599
crowling about it just hey uh none of

1283
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:29,220
this has any meaning anyway it's all

1284
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:32,760
being run by some other you know we're

1285
00:46:37,490 --> 00:46:34,800
in some kind of Illusion some kind of

1286
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:37,500
simulation just do what you want for own

1287
00:46:41,089 --> 00:46:38,640
gain

1288
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:41,099
and I would even take like that kind of

1289
00:46:44,990 --> 00:46:43,500
speculation it'd break it down into this

1290
00:46:47,450 --> 00:46:45,000
one point that you made again we could

1291
00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:47,460
break it down 50 000 different ways but

1292
00:46:52,130 --> 00:46:49,079
the whole thing is psychopath and

1293
00:46:53,569 --> 00:46:52,140
psychopathy is so interesting the way

1294
00:46:56,510 --> 00:46:53,579
that it's worked into our culture

1295
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,520
because a lot of people would take the

1296
00:47:01,490 --> 00:46:59,040
proven aspects that you document in the

1297
00:47:05,390 --> 00:47:01,500
book upside down contact and you would

1298
00:47:08,450 --> 00:47:05,400
say only a psychopath would do that and

1299
00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:08,460
they would therefore conclude that these

1300
00:47:14,030 --> 00:47:10,920
can only be understood as malevolent

1301
00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:14,040
beings and someone else would do exactly

1302
00:47:18,050 --> 00:47:16,260
what you did and say Well it kind of

1303
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:18,060
depends I don't want to put words in

1304
00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:19,740
your mouth maybe you didn't do this but

1305
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:22,380
it kind of depends on perspective I mean

1306
00:47:28,130 --> 00:47:25,920
is like in our whole uh you know

1307
00:47:30,049 --> 00:47:28,140
pandemic kind of post-pandemic world

1308
00:47:33,230 --> 00:47:30,059
that we live in the whole thing is

1309
00:47:36,770 --> 00:47:33,240
globalization is globalization good or

1310
00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:36,780
bad is One World Government good or bad

1311
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:39,780
is the idea of 142 seven tribes running

1312
00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:40,800
around

1313
00:47:44,930 --> 00:47:43,380
with hatchets chopping each other up and

1314
00:47:47,450 --> 00:47:44,940
some of them even have nuclear bombs

1315
00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:47,460
that can destroy the world and you look

1316
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:48,960
at our history of how close we've come

1317
00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:51,839
to actually doing that you know

1318
00:47:57,530 --> 00:47:54,180
which is which is worse you know what's

1319
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:57,540
worse I'm not saying I buy that at all

1320
00:48:05,930 --> 00:48:00,800
but I'm saying that argument can be made

1321
00:48:07,609 --> 00:48:05,940
outside of in my opinion the psychopathy

1322
00:48:10,849 --> 00:48:07,619
kind of argument you don't have to be

1323
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:10,859
Psychopathic to say hey that's a better

1324
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:14,480
kind of thing on the other hand

1325
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:18,720
we can look at true psychopathy and you

1326
00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:20,940
know the snakes in suits and how someone

1327
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:24,660
with just kind of almost normal uh

1328
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:26,400
negative intent you know because like

1329
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:28,800
the kind of intent that we see like the

1330
00:48:34,609 --> 00:48:31,200
serial killers and the John Wayne Gacy

1331
00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:34,619
we can't really wrap our head around

1332
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,660
that other than in some kind of

1333
00:48:40,130 --> 00:48:38,400
metaphysical kind of thing but we won't

1334
00:48:43,069 --> 00:48:40,140
even go there because it kind of muddies

1335
00:48:46,130 --> 00:48:43,079
the waters but just in terms of

1336
00:48:49,370 --> 00:48:46,140
greedy MFS that just want more and more

1337
00:48:52,370 --> 00:48:49,380
and just have an insatiable appetite for

1338
00:48:54,890 --> 00:48:52,380
power and money and control

1339
00:48:57,049 --> 00:48:54,900
much more relatable you've been around

1340
00:48:59,390 --> 00:48:57,059
those people in your professional life

1341
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:59,400
you know that you can still go to lunch

1342
00:49:02,510 --> 00:49:00,960
with them and have a good time with them

1343
00:49:04,609 --> 00:49:02,520
and hang out on the weekend with them

1344
00:49:07,069 --> 00:49:04,619
and have a beer they're they're not like

1345
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:07,079
impossible people to deal with they're

1346
00:49:13,089 --> 00:49:11,280
just stuck in that way and that so there

1347
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:13,099
is this more

1348
00:49:19,849 --> 00:49:16,319
nuanced view that we have to have of

1349
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:19,859
what psychopathy means in our world and

1350
00:49:23,690 --> 00:49:21,839
and also in just in terms of from a

1351
00:49:25,309 --> 00:49:23,700
practical standpoint because I so

1352
00:49:28,970 --> 00:49:25,319
appreciate that you again have this

1353
00:49:31,549 --> 00:49:28,980
practical uh business as well as kind of

1354
00:49:34,370 --> 00:49:31,559
legal Frontline Soldier kind of

1355
00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:34,380
mentality that understands this that

1356
00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:38,280
it's it is complicated and it is a get

1357
00:49:42,589 --> 00:49:40,260
things done kind of world and that takes

1358
00:49:45,309 --> 00:49:42,599
different people and in some cases you

1359
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:45,319
would tend to move towards the the

1360
00:49:49,790 --> 00:49:48,240
psychopathic person as somebody who is

1361
00:49:54,290 --> 00:49:49,800
can't be very

1362
00:49:56,450 --> 00:49:54,300
focused on getting things done so as you

1363
00:49:58,849 --> 00:49:56,460
look at the Spectrum

1364
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:58,859
this is a difficult question but and I

1365
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,240
think you partially answered it with

1366
00:50:04,430 --> 00:50:02,160
multiple species multiple agendas

1367
00:50:06,589 --> 00:50:04,440
multiple agendas within multiple species

1368
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:06,599
you know kind of thing but how how do

1369
00:50:14,089 --> 00:50:09,599
you overlay that then on upside down

1370
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:14,099
contact this idea of motivation and

1371
00:50:20,510 --> 00:50:17,460
maybe even psychopathy or you know

1372
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,520
ill-intent kind of thing yeah

1373
00:50:25,370 --> 00:50:22,640
well I agree with a lot of what you said

1374
00:50:27,410 --> 00:50:25,380
if we look at the far end of the

1375
00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:27,420
psychopathic Spectrum I mean I'm

1376
00:50:31,970 --> 00:50:30,180
thinking things like ritual abuse where

1377
00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:31,980
there is an attempt to invoke dark

1378
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,420
beings through the torture of another

1379
00:50:37,309 --> 00:50:35,520
human or other living being and actually

1380
00:50:38,890 --> 00:50:37,319
trying to you had an interview with Tom

1381
00:50:41,089 --> 00:50:38,900
zinzer talked about this too actually

1382
00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:41,099
build an attachment through the

1383
00:50:44,569 --> 00:50:42,660
dissociation of the personality to

1384
00:50:46,190 --> 00:50:44,579
summon dark beings

1385
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,200
to me that as far as what I've come

1386
00:50:51,170 --> 00:50:48,000
across nothing is more Psychopathic than

1387
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:51,180
that the desire to totally violate

1388
00:50:54,530 --> 00:50:53,040
someone

1389
00:50:56,930 --> 00:50:54,540
um and metaphysically I don't know where

1390
00:50:59,450 --> 00:50:56,940
well I have lots of questions about what

1391
00:51:01,549 --> 00:50:59,460
that means is there an attempt to

1392
00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:01,559
extract the positive energy from human

1393
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,140
beings for their own benefits and it's a

1394
00:51:08,089 --> 00:51:06,480
purely selfish energy that's kind of

1395
00:51:09,770 --> 00:51:08,099
where I come out if we're on the far end

1396
00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:09,780
of the spectrum where it's purely

1397
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:13,020
selfish and there's no hiding it but

1398
00:51:15,410 --> 00:51:14,160
then we can move in the middle of the

1399
00:51:16,670 --> 00:51:15,420
spectrum where it's like well I'm going

1400
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:16,680
to do this thing it might harm some

1401
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:18,960
people but it's for the greater good and

1402
00:51:22,970 --> 00:51:20,460
I'm ultimately being compassionate it's

1403
00:51:25,010 --> 00:51:22,980
like this utilitarian uh perspective

1404
00:51:26,210 --> 00:51:25,020
which might have aspects of psychopathy

1405
00:51:28,010 --> 00:51:26,220
because it lacks empathy in certain

1406
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:28,020
areas so you could have people in the

1407
00:51:31,130 --> 00:51:29,040
world who really think they're doing

1408
00:51:32,990 --> 00:51:31,140
good with their policies because they're

1409
00:51:34,490 --> 00:51:33,000
thinking in a purely collectivistic way

1410
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,500
this is something I talk about in The

1411
00:51:37,370 --> 00:51:36,000
Liberty book because I I get really

1412
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:37,380
concerned especially with the spiritual

1413
00:51:42,170 --> 00:51:39,480
Community going overly collectivistic

1414
00:51:43,490 --> 00:51:42,180
we're all one yeah that's true except

1415
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,500
that we're all individuals within the

1416
00:51:46,970 --> 00:51:44,880
Oneness and the minute you ignore the

1417
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,980
individual that gives permission to say

1418
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:48,480
well the individual doesn't matter and

1419
00:51:51,049 --> 00:51:49,680
the worst crimes you could think of in

1420
00:51:52,430 --> 00:51:51,059
history is when governments go fully

1421
00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:52,440
collectivistic whether it's fascist or

1422
00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:54,420
or communist the individual doesn't

1423
00:51:59,210 --> 00:51:57,180
matter at all so somewhere within there

1424
00:52:00,530 --> 00:51:59,220
there's the desire to do good but

1425
00:52:02,750 --> 00:52:00,540
there's a manipulation it becomes

1426
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:02,760
Psychopathic and then from there I think

1427
00:52:09,530 --> 00:52:06,420
you move into the quote unquote good uh

1428
00:52:10,910 --> 00:52:09,540
spectrum of you know whether it's just a

1429
00:52:13,010 --> 00:52:10,920
normally good person or someone who's

1430
00:52:17,089 --> 00:52:13,020
fully saintly and I also want to touch

1431
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:17,099
on what you asked about living life uh

1432
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:18,720
practically and how to deal with all

1433
00:52:22,370 --> 00:52:20,640
this

1434
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:22,380
um there's a story that I constantly

1435
00:52:26,329 --> 00:52:24,240
come back to when I was after I wrote my

1436
00:52:27,950 --> 00:52:26,339
first book an ENT upside down thinking I

1437
00:52:30,309 --> 00:52:27,960
was looking a lot at like

1438
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:30,319
how to live life if you accept

1439
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:32,160
post-materialism basically conscience

1440
00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:33,839
doesn't come from the brain I got into a

1441
00:52:36,829 --> 00:52:35,280
lot of the non-dual teachings and the

1442
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:36,839
spiritual teachers and there's a lot of

1443
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:38,160
good stuff in there one of the teachers

1444
00:52:42,349 --> 00:52:39,839
I often talk about is Dr David Hawkins

1445
00:52:44,750 --> 00:52:42,359
who was a top psychiatrist who became

1446
00:52:46,430 --> 00:52:44,760
very spiritual and allegedly reached

1447
00:52:48,349 --> 00:52:46,440
very high States Of Consciousness and

1448
00:52:50,510 --> 00:52:48,359
one of the stories he often told was

1449
00:52:52,430 --> 00:52:50,520
that when he was elevating and reaching

1450
00:52:53,630 --> 00:52:52,440
these states of Enlightenment there was

1451
00:52:54,349 --> 00:52:53,640
a phase when it felt like it was just

1452
00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:54,359
him

1453
00:52:58,730 --> 00:52:56,760
and then there was this it seems like a

1454
00:53:00,650 --> 00:52:58,740
being he calls it a knowingness a voice

1455
00:53:02,569 --> 00:53:00,660
that came to him and said look you've

1456
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:02,579
transcended all of your personal Karma

1457
00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:05,520
all power is yours take it

1458
00:53:08,329 --> 00:53:07,140
and what he said in a split second

1459
00:53:10,010 --> 00:53:08,339
because this just came to him he said

1460
00:53:11,870 --> 00:53:10,020
wait a second if I am everything why

1461
00:53:13,250 --> 00:53:11,880
should I take this power over others and

1462
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:13,260
then he said he transcended and went to

1463
00:53:15,890 --> 00:53:14,400
the next level now I don't know if the

1464
00:53:17,809 --> 00:53:15,900
story is true but I love the moral of

1465
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:17,819
the story he claims he was shown the

1466
00:53:21,890 --> 00:53:19,920
beings that did not take the Temptation

1467
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:21,900
and those that did take it and he said

1468
00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:23,160
the ones that did take the Temptation

1469
00:53:27,230 --> 00:53:25,800
had the horrible karmic fall because at

1470
00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:27,240
that level it's the consequences

1471
00:53:31,809 --> 00:53:28,680
apparently are worse if you if you make

1472
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:31,819
a bad decision so the point here is that

1473
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:35,520
these forces seem to try to get us in

1474
00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:37,200
our weak spots that's a theme that seems

1475
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:38,940
to be coming up everywhere they can

1476
00:53:42,650 --> 00:53:41,040
manifest as the really dark explicitly

1477
00:53:44,750 --> 00:53:42,660
Psychopathic where it can be this ah

1478
00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:44,760
just take the power over everyone

1479
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:46,740
and I wrote about this in my book and

1480
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:47,760
ended upside down living when I

1481
00:53:50,569 --> 00:53:48,960
cautioned about spiritual teachers

1482
00:53:52,250 --> 00:53:50,579
because there's lots of examples of the

1483
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:52,260
Fallen Guru that takes the Temptation

1484
00:53:56,270 --> 00:53:54,480
and it's usually money sex or power

1485
00:53:58,370 --> 00:53:56,280
Mariana Kaplan talks about that because

1486
00:54:00,890 --> 00:53:58,380
she's analyzed these gurus where it gets

1487
00:54:02,510 --> 00:54:00,900
you in some way so this goes back to

1488
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:02,520
your question about the spectrum of you

1489
00:54:05,690 --> 00:54:04,319
could be really good but these forces

1490
00:54:07,730 --> 00:54:05,700
might come in and try to tempt you in a

1491
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:07,740
certain way and it gets to where

1492
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:09,119
initially I wanted to go with all this

1493
00:54:12,170 --> 00:54:10,920
about how I think about living I do

1494
00:54:14,270 --> 00:54:12,180
think it's about the evolution of our

1495
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:14,280
Consciousness but part of that is like

1496
00:54:17,690 --> 00:54:15,839
the protection of our Consciousness the

1497
00:54:19,609 --> 00:54:17,700
protection of our soul

1498
00:54:20,750 --> 00:54:19,619
which starts to get into a lot of the

1499
00:54:22,370 --> 00:54:20,760
what the spiritual Traditions have

1500
00:54:23,630 --> 00:54:22,380
talked about but I I feel that way more

1501
00:54:25,370 --> 00:54:23,640
and more because it seems like these

1502
00:54:26,450 --> 00:54:25,380
forces are intruding upon us especially

1503
00:54:28,309 --> 00:54:26,460
if we look at what's happening with

1504
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:28,319
coven and the jab and all this stuff

1505
00:54:32,809 --> 00:54:30,900
where it's like it's impeding on your

1506
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:32,819
life and you you're either going to go

1507
00:54:35,450 --> 00:54:33,839
along with it or you're going to set

1508
00:54:37,609 --> 00:54:35,460
boundaries

1509
00:54:39,289 --> 00:54:37,619
and that's an important part of living

1510
00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:39,299
as well as just trying to achieve

1511
00:54:43,609 --> 00:54:41,640
unconditional love they both go together

1512
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:43,619
you mentioned Ken ring and you mentioned

1513
00:54:47,569 --> 00:54:45,119
in the book and the near-death

1514
00:54:49,370 --> 00:54:47,579
experience and stuff the deception like

1515
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,380
that's why I was so intrigued with why

1516
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:51,119
people didn't talk about Lou Elizondo is

1517
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:53,760
if it's a real kind of thing when it's

1518
00:54:57,890 --> 00:54:55,920
clear that it isn't so back to the Ken

1519
00:54:59,210 --> 00:54:57,900
ring before I digress too much and you

1520
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:59,220
might remember this and I don't remember

1521
00:55:04,430 --> 00:55:01,920
if it was in the book or not

1522
00:55:05,690 --> 00:55:04,440
but near he so Ken ring is looking at

1523
00:55:07,250 --> 00:55:05,700
the parallels between near-death

1524
00:55:09,170 --> 00:55:07,260
experience and abduction experience

1525
00:55:11,690 --> 00:55:09,180
while a lot of things to say and he gets

1526
00:55:13,849 --> 00:55:11,700
this group of people that have had this

1527
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:13,859
really positive thing and they say wow

1528
00:55:19,549 --> 00:55:16,020
the space brothers are here to save the

1529
00:55:22,130 --> 00:55:19,559
planet and as a matter of fact if we

1530
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:22,140
don't get our ass in gear the planet's

1531
00:55:29,450 --> 00:55:26,160
gonna destroy be destroyed in 1988.

1532
00:55:31,309 --> 00:55:29,460
1988 they put and independently they

1533
00:55:33,289 --> 00:55:31,319
kind of several of them come to the same

1534
00:55:34,910 --> 00:55:33,299
thing and lo and behold there's this

1535
00:55:37,849 --> 00:55:34,920
woman in England and she isn't even

1536
00:55:41,569 --> 00:55:37,859
associated with Ken ring but she has you

1537
00:55:44,329 --> 00:55:41,579
know the 1988 becomes the date

1538
00:55:47,270 --> 00:55:44,339
hey man that date comes and goes and

1539
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:47,280
where is it and there's like a million

1540
00:55:53,210 --> 00:55:49,920
examples of this but

1541
00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:53,220
people are so susceptible to like it it

1542
00:55:55,789 --> 00:55:54,660
ties into some of the things you're

1543
00:55:58,490 --> 00:55:55,799
saying and then I'll just let you riff

1544
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:58,500
out it however you want but we got to be

1545
00:56:02,990 --> 00:56:00,480
as much as we want to believe that

1546
00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:03,000
they're here to save the planet and and

1547
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,220
help our environment

1548
00:56:11,150 --> 00:56:07,920
discernment I'm not sure that's really

1549
00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:11,160
stands up to a careful scrutiny

1550
00:56:17,690 --> 00:56:12,540
yeah

1551
00:56:19,730 --> 00:56:17,700
and approach to all this is to present

1552
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:19,740
all sides of the evidence because I

1553
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:21,359
really don't know I mean I know based on

1554
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:22,559
my own personal experience which is

1555
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:23,520
super limited because I haven't

1556
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:25,440
encountered these beings at least as far

1557
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:26,880
as I can remember I haven't

1558
00:56:29,930 --> 00:56:28,319
um because you never know what was been

1559
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:29,940
blocked out of our memory

1560
00:56:36,109 --> 00:56:33,599
and I do come across this positive space

1561
00:56:37,730 --> 00:56:36,119
brothers theme repeatedly that they are

1562
00:56:38,930 --> 00:56:37,740
going to save us and don't worry because

1563
00:56:40,609 --> 00:56:38,940
they're going to take care of everything

1564
00:56:42,530 --> 00:56:40,619
and when I hear that I get really

1565
00:56:44,750 --> 00:56:42,540
concerned when it's like don't worry

1566
00:56:46,250 --> 00:56:44,760
we're you don't need to do anything that

1567
00:56:48,530 --> 00:56:46,260
mentality and I actually end the book

1568
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:48,540
and into upside down contact with that

1569
00:56:51,950 --> 00:56:50,880
theme of yeah there could be positive

1570
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:51,960
beings and maybe they're going to come

1571
00:56:54,530 --> 00:56:53,220
and maybe more advanced beings are

1572
00:56:56,089 --> 00:56:54,540
incarnating on the planet like people

1573
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:56,099
are saying but that doesn't take the

1574
00:56:59,690 --> 00:56:58,319
onus off of us as individuals I think it

1575
00:57:01,010 --> 00:56:59,700
starts with the individual and it's a

1576
00:57:02,930 --> 00:57:01,020
collection of individuals who are

1577
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:02,940
elevating that's going to do it the

1578
00:57:06,789 --> 00:57:05,040
minute we offload it to someone else I

1579
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:06,799
think we get into big trouble

1580
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,079
yeah and I take it even one step further

1581
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:12,480
and let's break it down to another level

1582
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:15,839
of logic and reason and you know that's

1583
00:57:20,990 --> 00:57:18,180
where you come at this stuff from you

1584
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:21,000
are a smart guy and you're not afraid of

1585
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:24,240
applying your intelligence to this thing

1586
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,680
and it comes through in the book you

1587
00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:27,119
know where you're kind of reasoning this

1588
00:57:33,049 --> 00:57:29,940
thing through it's like

1589
00:57:34,910 --> 00:57:33,059
question number one with on ET in

1590
00:57:37,010 --> 00:57:34,920
everyone's mind is

1591
00:57:40,010 --> 00:57:37,020
you're being deceptive by not disclosing

1592
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:40,020
right if if whatever

1593
00:57:46,430 --> 00:57:44,160
you say uh then come forth you obviously

1594
00:57:47,930 --> 00:57:46,440
are in in charge you have power go ahead

1595
00:57:51,950 --> 00:57:47,940
you want to roof on that for a minute no

1596
00:57:53,630 --> 00:57:51,960
go ahead I agree with you yeah so no

1597
00:57:55,789 --> 00:57:53,640
tell tell me what tell me what you think

1598
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:55,799
uh about that because again it's like

1599
00:58:00,589 --> 00:57:58,559
such an obvious duh point but it's which

1600
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:00,599
is kind of what your books are about is

1601
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:03,359
like ah you know upside down thinking

1602
00:58:07,970 --> 00:58:05,280
it's like they're in control they could

1603
00:58:10,490 --> 00:58:07,980
they could land on the cliche is land on

1604
00:58:13,609 --> 00:58:10,500
the White House lawn they could do that

1605
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:13,619
at any time right and they're right why

1606
00:58:17,630 --> 00:58:15,359
are they not doing that and that is in

1607
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:17,640
it of itself a form of deception so that

1608
00:58:21,049 --> 00:58:18,960
automatically should bring about some

1609
00:58:22,910 --> 00:58:21,059
skepticism so I agree with you and it it

1610
00:58:24,589 --> 00:58:22,920
reminds me of what a lot of spiritual

1611
00:58:25,730 --> 00:58:24,599
teachings talk about when they when they

1612
00:58:28,609 --> 00:58:25,740
talk about these other Realms they just

1613
00:58:30,770 --> 00:58:28,619
say be very wary because they can these

1614
00:58:31,970 --> 00:58:30,780
are beings that can manipulate you they

1615
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:31,980
can appear one way and they're not

1616
00:58:35,329 --> 00:58:33,599
actually that way so many of them say

1617
00:58:36,530 --> 00:58:35,339
like avoid psychics avoid channeling and

1618
00:58:38,450 --> 00:58:36,540
all that because there are potential

1619
00:58:40,910 --> 00:58:38,460
dangers I think there are maybe good

1620
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:40,920
beings too but how can we discern some

1621
00:58:43,549 --> 00:58:42,000
of this stuff if they're so much more

1622
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,559
advanced we might it might have a

1623
00:58:47,450 --> 00:58:45,119
difficult time sometimes although like

1624
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:47,460
you say there are hints and we have to

1625
00:58:50,930 --> 00:58:49,020
learn those hints like when they start

1626
00:58:52,250 --> 00:58:50,940
getting into grandiosity

1627
00:58:55,309 --> 00:58:52,260
you know

1628
00:58:57,470 --> 00:58:55,319
I always think about Robert Hastings

1629
00:59:00,109 --> 00:58:57,480
when I do this and he's somebody you

1630
00:59:03,170 --> 00:59:00,119
mentioned in the book but just for folks

1631
00:59:04,789 --> 00:59:03,180
who don't know terrific guy and and I

1632
00:59:05,870 --> 00:59:04,799
had an email exchange with him I was

1633
00:59:08,030 --> 00:59:05,880
trying to get in for an interview and

1634
00:59:11,390 --> 00:59:08,040
he's not in good health to do interviews

1635
00:59:14,809 --> 00:59:11,400
at this point but he has done the most

1636
00:59:16,670 --> 00:59:14,819
complete review of UFOs and nukes that's

1637
00:59:18,410 --> 00:59:16,680
his thing and you've seen him on a bunch

1638
00:59:21,829 --> 00:59:18,420
of TV shows and stuff like that and he's

1639
00:59:24,770 --> 00:59:21,839
interviewed over 150 of these kind of

1640
00:59:28,730 --> 00:59:24,780
senior military personnel who were at

1641
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,740
these uh Air Force bases and other bases

1642
00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:30,480
or flyers and stuff like that that were

1643
00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:32,760
protecting the nukes and there's this

1644
00:59:38,150 --> 00:59:35,460
interaction between UFOs and nukes and I

1645
00:59:42,589 --> 00:59:38,160
don't want to bury the lead here he says

1646
00:59:46,250 --> 00:59:42,599
20 years ago I thought that this was

1647
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:46,260
like the UFO giving us a warning shot

1648
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,200
across the bow hey guys come on step up

1649
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:51,359
to the plate be better human beings

1650
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:53,760
protect the planet come on we can we're

1651
00:59:58,430 --> 00:59:56,160
all in this together and he said

1652
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:58,440
it's shifted and I'm paraphrasing but

1653
01:00:02,690 --> 01:00:00,720
now he says I've kind of come to

1654
01:00:05,289 --> 01:00:02,700
understand it as

1655
01:00:09,170 --> 01:00:05,299
ah it's kind of in our mutual interest

1656
01:00:13,130 --> 01:00:09,180
that you don't do what you're doing and

1657
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:13,140
that just so struck me to the core of us

1658
01:00:16,609 --> 01:00:14,640
particularly in this kind of level three

1659
01:00:19,130 --> 01:00:16,619
conversation we're having that's not

1660
01:00:22,130 --> 01:00:19,140
necessarily uh malevolent that isn't

1661
01:00:24,770 --> 01:00:22,140
necessarily bad but it might be a level

1662
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,780
of reality that uh back to the very

1663
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:26,880
beginning in this discussion until we're

1664
01:00:33,170 --> 01:00:30,240
willing to and able to explore that that

1665
01:00:35,390 --> 01:00:33,180
truth that potential truth

1666
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:35,400
but it totally it switches everything we

1667
01:00:39,289 --> 01:00:37,440
don't have a chance of even pretending

1668
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:39,299
we can understand it if we're not even

1669
01:00:42,589 --> 01:00:40,799
willing to balance those two because

1670
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:42,599
they take us in two completely different

1671
01:00:46,430 --> 01:00:45,359
places right yes so two things I want to

1672
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:46,440
say and I remember what I was going to

1673
01:00:50,329 --> 01:00:47,760
say before because it's related to this

1674
01:00:51,530 --> 01:00:50,339
on the topic of UFOs and nukes and I

1675
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:51,540
should just say that book is

1676
01:00:55,069 --> 01:00:53,280
unbelievable it's like I don't know 500

1677
01:00:57,049 --> 01:00:55,079
pages long the amount of detail he has

1678
01:00:58,250 --> 01:00:57,059
from interviewing over 150 people at

1679
01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:58,260
these facilities

1680
01:01:02,930 --> 01:01:00,000
it's hard to read that and not think

1681
01:01:04,490 --> 01:01:02,940
something's going on and I'm it's one of

1682
01:01:05,990 --> 01:01:04,500
those things I mean I spent so much time

1683
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:06,000
reading since I especially since I left

1684
01:01:10,309 --> 01:01:08,640
my job there's so much information in

1685
01:01:11,569 --> 01:01:10,319
books and people are busy with their

1686
01:01:12,950 --> 01:01:11,579
lives and I can understand it but the

1687
01:01:14,990 --> 01:01:12,960
information is there and this is one of

1688
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,000
those incredible resources but what I

1689
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:17,280
came across in my research not directly

1690
01:01:22,370 --> 01:01:19,920
connected to what Hastings said is um

1691
01:01:24,170 --> 01:01:22,380
Philip Corso's son

1692
01:01:26,270 --> 01:01:24,180
and so Philip Corso for those who are

1693
01:01:27,950 --> 01:01:26,280
not familiar with them he wrote a book

1694
01:01:30,770 --> 01:01:27,960
called The Day After Roswell published

1695
01:01:32,150 --> 01:01:30,780
in 1997 and he allegedly there's lots of

1696
01:01:34,430 --> 01:01:32,160
controversy over whether or not this is

1697
01:01:35,809 --> 01:01:34,440
true he was involved in research and

1698
01:01:37,730 --> 01:01:35,819
development using the technology

1699
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:37,740
collected after the Roswell crash in

1700
01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:40,079
1947 and allegedly a lot of that

1701
01:01:43,549 --> 01:01:41,520
technology shows up all over the world

1702
01:01:45,950 --> 01:01:43,559
in stuff that we use because they were

1703
01:01:48,049 --> 01:01:45,960
covered at the at the crash site so he

1704
01:01:49,490 --> 01:01:48,059
wrote this book uh talking all about it

1705
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:49,500
he even saw a gray alien that he

1706
01:01:53,690 --> 01:01:51,119
describes in the book and other other

1707
01:01:55,609 --> 01:01:53,700
lots of other crazy details he passed

1708
01:01:57,710 --> 01:01:55,619
away but his son is still alive and is

1709
01:02:00,049 --> 01:01:57,720
talking about it so in in his son's

1710
01:02:02,089 --> 01:02:00,059
interview within the last few years he

1711
01:02:05,089 --> 01:02:02,099
talks about what his father told him

1712
01:02:06,529 --> 01:02:05,099
about Edward Teller the father of the

1713
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:06,539
atomic bomb

1714
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:08,880
and what teller told his father

1715
01:02:12,650 --> 01:02:11,039
was that the alien beings became much

1716
01:02:15,049 --> 01:02:12,660
more interested in Earth

1717
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:15,059
following those detonations

1718
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:18,000
because the detonations somehow impact

1719
01:02:22,490 --> 01:02:20,160
other dimensions which impacts these

1720
01:02:25,370 --> 01:02:22,500
beings so they have been showing up more

1721
01:02:27,289 --> 01:02:25,380
often since the World War II era

1722
01:02:29,150 --> 01:02:27,299
out of their own interest maybe it's

1723
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:29,160
mutually beneficial too but they're

1724
01:02:32,210 --> 01:02:30,480
going to protect themselves because it's

1725
01:02:34,490 --> 01:02:32,220
actually harmful for those Dimensions to

1726
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,500
be altered now I don't know if it's true

1727
01:02:37,970 --> 01:02:36,240
but it it ties into what you're saying

1728
01:02:39,410 --> 01:02:37,980
and it's an important consideration that

1729
01:02:41,329 --> 01:02:39,420
yeah they might want to help us but it's

1730
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:41,339
helping themselves too and then another

1731
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:42,480
topic the one that I was going to

1732
01:02:46,490 --> 01:02:43,680
mention earlier

1733
01:02:48,890 --> 01:02:46,500
is a notion that I've heard a lot with

1734
01:02:51,289 --> 01:02:48,900
regard to the the allegations of the

1735
01:02:52,970 --> 01:02:51,299
Galactic Federation which I don't know I

1736
01:02:54,650 --> 01:02:52,980
mean I can't prove it I have no

1737
01:02:56,270 --> 01:02:54,660
experience with it but I hear it talked

1738
01:02:57,890 --> 01:02:56,280
about a lot and uh The farsight

1739
01:03:00,109 --> 01:02:57,900
Institute you've interviewed Dr Courtney

1740
01:03:02,690 --> 01:03:00,119
Brown from Emory University who runs a

1741
01:03:04,190 --> 01:03:02,700
separate remote viewing group that looks

1742
01:03:06,410 --> 01:03:04,200
at historical events and also current

1743
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:06,420
events using remote viewers to try to

1744
01:03:09,170 --> 01:03:07,920
figure out what's going on and one of

1745
01:03:10,730 --> 01:03:09,180
the comments he made in a recent

1746
01:03:12,410 --> 01:03:10,740
interview about the Galactic Federation

1747
01:03:14,450 --> 01:03:12,420
which he claims has come up in lots of

1748
01:03:16,250 --> 01:03:14,460
different uh remote viewing sessions is

1749
01:03:18,349 --> 01:03:16,260
that the beings are benevolent

1750
01:03:21,770 --> 01:03:18,359
but they don't want to intervene because

1751
01:03:23,650 --> 01:03:21,780
it's our Karma to learn for ourselves

1752
01:03:26,630 --> 01:03:23,660
I don't know

1753
01:03:28,730 --> 01:03:26,640
so if you apply that to the UFOs and

1754
01:03:31,250 --> 01:03:28,740
nukes is it maybe sometimes they're

1755
01:03:32,569 --> 01:03:31,260
intervening on to try to help out and

1756
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:32,579
give us a warning like Hastings

1757
01:03:37,069 --> 01:03:34,079
initially thought but in other cases

1758
01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:37,079
they're letting us learn on our own I

1759
01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:38,520
just toss it out there as one of these

1760
01:03:43,490 --> 01:03:40,400
other theories that that you know

1761
01:03:45,470 --> 01:03:43,500
benevolence but it's like not a fully uh

1762
01:03:47,210 --> 01:03:45,480
interventionist benevolence if that's

1763
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:47,220
true

1764
01:03:52,250 --> 01:03:49,440
yeah I got three points I want to make

1765
01:03:53,450 --> 01:03:52,260
sure I hit them all and apologies to

1766
01:03:57,109 --> 01:03:53,460
anyone who can't follow this

1767
01:03:59,569 --> 01:03:57,119
conversation too bad uh the first is did

1768
01:04:01,309 --> 01:03:59,579
you happen to catch my interview my

1769
01:04:03,049 --> 01:04:01,319
multiple interviews with Bruce Fenton

1770
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,059
yes

1771
01:04:07,130 --> 01:04:05,760
so again I'm not like driving a stake in

1772
01:04:09,289 --> 01:04:07,140
the ground and saying that's totally

1773
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:09,299
true or anything like that but the

1774
01:04:13,250 --> 01:04:11,280
reason I think it's like super important

1775
01:04:16,250 --> 01:04:13,260
what he's bringing forward because is

1776
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:16,260
that one I love the way he's approached

1777
01:04:21,410 --> 01:04:19,440
it in trying to tie science to it to at

1778
01:04:23,390 --> 01:04:21,420
least add some credibility to what he's

1779
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:23,400
saying but the really important thing is

1780
01:04:29,569 --> 01:04:26,400
he's flipping the script with the date

1781
01:04:32,510 --> 01:04:29,579
so he's saying okay 780

1782
01:04:36,890 --> 01:04:32,520
000 years ago the terrarium the

1783
01:04:38,569 --> 01:04:36,900
experiment the zoo begins with them

1784
01:04:41,390 --> 01:04:38,579
coming down and starting a genetic

1785
01:04:45,250 --> 01:04:41,400
engineering program on humans but what

1786
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:45,260
is also said as part of that is hey man

1787
01:04:50,329 --> 01:04:48,960
it sounds so modern day like hey there's

1788
01:04:51,589 --> 01:04:50,339
this one group over there and they're

1789
01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:51,599
pretty good and they want to do stuff

1790
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:53,339
but oh there's this bad group

1791
01:04:57,770 --> 01:04:55,680
underground oh and then they blow up the

1792
01:05:00,049 --> 01:04:57,780
ship so then let's come back and we'll

1793
01:05:03,529 --> 01:05:00,059
blow up them and you know I mean this is

1794
01:05:06,470 --> 01:05:03,539
like Star Wars and it's 780 000 years

1795
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:06,480
ago so I think like one of the places

1796
01:05:12,910 --> 01:05:09,599
that takes me as it relates directly to

1797
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:12,920
your book is consciousness Evolution

1798
01:05:19,970 --> 01:05:17,280
question mark you know are we how fast

1799
01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:19,980
are we evolving but then even more

1800
01:05:24,829 --> 01:05:22,260
importantly I would totally agree with

1801
01:05:26,990 --> 01:05:24,839
you forget about that this is a drama

1802
01:05:30,289 --> 01:05:27,000
this is a play that's playing out it's

1803
01:05:31,609 --> 01:05:30,299
the personal the the very personal close

1804
01:05:33,950 --> 01:05:31,619
your eyes and look at that spot between

1805
01:05:35,930 --> 01:05:33,960
your eyes and you are in another

1806
01:05:37,309 --> 01:05:35,940
dimension right now so you don't even

1807
01:05:40,130 --> 01:05:37,319
have to speculate about all this other

1808
01:05:41,390 --> 01:05:40,140
stuff it's internal to you and that's

1809
01:05:43,849 --> 01:05:41,400
all you have to worry about kind of

1810
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:43,859
thing but I I want to hit all these

1811
01:05:46,430 --> 01:05:44,880
points

1812
01:05:49,069 --> 01:05:46,440
I don't know if I should go through them

1813
01:05:52,010 --> 01:05:49,079
one by one and and pause on each one or

1814
01:05:55,730 --> 01:05:52,020
or clean them all up okay I'll I'll team

1815
01:05:57,650 --> 01:05:55,740
out so the importance there is

1816
01:06:00,010 --> 01:05:57,660
oh the other thing I was going to add is

1817
01:06:02,210 --> 01:06:00,020
you know I did an interview and actually

1818
01:06:03,710 --> 01:06:02,220
Gordon white a long time ago I did an

1819
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:03,720
interview with John Brandenburg for

1820
01:06:09,529 --> 01:06:07,200
skeptico and there is even more

1821
01:06:12,410 --> 01:06:09,539
I guess concrete if you bought uh

1822
01:06:14,450 --> 01:06:12,420
physical uh evidence he's uh astrophys

1823
01:06:17,329 --> 01:06:14,460
now he's not an astrophysicist

1824
01:06:19,170 --> 01:06:17,339
uh but he's a physicist and he's

1825
01:06:20,750 --> 01:06:19,180
detected uh

1826
01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:20,760
[Music]

1827
01:06:28,430 --> 01:06:25,440
a nuclear explosion signature from Mars

1828
01:06:30,470 --> 01:06:28,440
from what he estimates to be 250 000

1829
01:06:32,569 --> 01:06:30,480
years ago and he goes look I've looked

1830
01:06:34,849 --> 01:06:32,579
at this every way possible this is my

1831
01:06:36,650 --> 01:06:34,859
thing I know how to do this you know

1832
01:06:39,289 --> 01:06:36,660
he's kind of very distinguished

1833
01:06:41,990 --> 01:06:39,299
mainstream career and he says this

1834
01:06:44,270 --> 01:06:42,000
doesn't fit background radiation it

1835
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:44,280
doesn't fit anything else it all these

1836
01:06:50,029 --> 01:06:46,559
Isotopes only fit one thing that we know

1837
01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:50,039
about and that's nuclear biops and here

1838
01:06:55,370 --> 01:06:51,720
they are and we can date them back to

1839
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:55,380
250 500 000 Mars kind of thing so I just

1840
01:06:59,569 --> 01:06:56,640
thought that was interesting as it

1841
01:07:02,569 --> 01:06:59,579
relates to Bruce Fenton 780 000 years

1842
01:07:04,609 --> 01:07:02,579
ago and again I uh in the spirit of what

1843
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:04,619
you're doing you just gotta throw that

1844
01:07:10,309 --> 01:07:06,720
out there and say okay what would if

1845
01:07:12,650 --> 01:07:10,319
that was true then how would that change

1846
01:07:15,049 --> 01:07:12,660
how we think about and for example I

1847
01:07:17,089 --> 01:07:15,059
think about the good bad thing to me it

1848
01:07:19,250 --> 01:07:17,099
suggests that we are playing out this

1849
01:07:20,710 --> 01:07:19,260
drama that's been played out forever and

1850
01:07:24,770 --> 01:07:20,720
will continue to be played out forever

1851
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:24,780
and our true Soul journey is at a is

1852
01:07:28,549 --> 01:07:26,640
outside of this space-time and outside

1853
01:07:29,470 --> 01:07:28,559
of the space-time that the aliens are

1854
01:07:31,970 --> 01:07:29,480
really

1855
01:07:33,470 --> 01:07:31,980
we're all in this drama you know it's

1856
01:07:34,849 --> 01:07:33,480
like when I talked to Whitney strieber a

1857
01:07:36,770 --> 01:07:34,859
long time ago and I remember you know

1858
01:07:40,970 --> 01:07:36,780
he's got all over the places but I love

1859
01:07:43,250 --> 01:07:40,980
him but I said you know how close are is

1860
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:43,260
this other and he was his answer was

1861
01:07:47,569 --> 01:07:45,119
immediate he goes oh they're right

1862
01:07:49,789 --> 01:07:47,579
they're right here they're right at the

1863
01:07:51,950 --> 01:07:49,799
tip of our nose and he was saying that

1864
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:51,960
not just from a physical standpoint

1865
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:55,440
obviously but from a Consciousness you

1866
01:08:02,029 --> 01:07:58,559
know how far above are they you know

1867
01:08:05,150 --> 01:08:02,039
he's no no they're right right in our

1868
01:08:08,809 --> 01:08:05,160
soup you know like does ET have a nde

1869
01:08:10,370 --> 01:08:08,819
kind of thing so that's point one hold

1870
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:10,380
on to that okay

1871
01:08:13,849 --> 01:08:12,000
the other point that you mentioned I

1872
01:08:15,710 --> 01:08:13,859
think is so so interesting I don't hear

1873
01:08:17,570 --> 01:08:15,720
it talked about enough is like

1874
01:08:20,030 --> 01:08:17,580
Philip Corso there's all this

1875
01:08:22,669 --> 01:08:20,040
controversy like oh my God he's such a

1876
01:08:24,890 --> 01:08:22,679
scam that's fake and look I you know

1877
01:08:27,169 --> 01:08:24,900
debunked it here and there

1878
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:27,179
what's never factored in in my opinion

1879
01:08:32,930 --> 01:08:30,480
is a before disclosure after disclosure

1880
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:32,940
perspective if you go look at the

1881
01:08:36,590 --> 01:08:34,319
debunking

1882
01:08:38,450 --> 01:08:36,600
and you put it in now our after

1883
01:08:41,390 --> 01:08:38,460
disclosure lens

1884
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:41,400
it looks crazy the debunking looks crazy

1885
01:08:45,709 --> 01:08:44,159
because it's like oh you know well there

1886
01:08:48,349 --> 01:08:45,719
wouldn't be any advanced technology

1887
01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:48,359
there wouldn't be no we don't know there

1888
01:08:52,370 --> 01:08:50,339
is advanced technology we know there's

1889
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:52,380
the Tic Tac we know there's this we know

1890
01:08:57,050 --> 01:08:54,000
they lied for all those years it's

1891
01:09:01,010 --> 01:08:57,060
proven you and there's never a a

1892
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:01,020
retrenching of the debunking you know of

1893
01:09:06,349 --> 01:09:03,120
the debunking of saying oh you know this

1894
01:09:08,030 --> 01:09:06,359
idea that we had space junk and we were

1895
01:09:10,249 --> 01:09:08,040
Distributing it to different

1896
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:10,259
companies that were already and the

1897
01:09:16,610 --> 01:09:13,199
other thing I hear is like hey you know

1898
01:09:18,590 --> 01:09:16,620
I can show you the path for integrated

1899
01:09:20,209 --> 01:09:18,600
circuits or lasers and stuff like that

1900
01:09:21,649 --> 01:09:20,219
well of course if you're going to

1901
01:09:23,930 --> 01:09:21,659
distribute the technology you wouldn't

1902
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,940
just give it to some Joe schmoe over

1903
01:09:27,110 --> 01:09:25,440
here is working on something completely

1904
01:09:28,669 --> 01:09:27,120
different you'd give it to somebody

1905
01:09:31,849 --> 01:09:28,679
who's already you know

1906
01:09:34,910 --> 01:09:31,859
halfway down the path so that's Point

1907
01:09:37,669 --> 01:09:34,920
number two is I don't think we do a good

1908
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:37,679
job of uh debunking the debunkers in up

1909
01:09:42,110 --> 01:09:40,799
after disclosure kind of world but the

1910
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:42,120
third one

1911
01:09:46,490 --> 01:09:43,920
and you can comment on those first two

1912
01:09:48,289 --> 01:09:46,500
or not but this last one I really really

1913
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:48,299
want you to comment on because I think

1914
01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:51,120
it in so many ways is that the heart and

1915
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:54,719
soul of this book upside down contact

1916
01:10:00,229 --> 01:09:57,120
and that is

1917
01:10:03,169 --> 01:10:00,239
do you think we are at some kind of

1918
01:10:05,810 --> 01:10:03,179
crossover point and I've always been

1919
01:10:07,490 --> 01:10:05,820
resistant to that idea but like when we

1920
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:07,500
talk about

1921
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:10,320
like you were talking about not only

1922
01:10:13,370 --> 01:10:11,760
when we're talking about Hastings but

1923
01:10:15,070 --> 01:10:13,380
when we're talking about the abduction

1924
01:10:17,570 --> 01:10:15,080
thing and

1925
01:10:19,370 --> 01:10:17,580
the process and the program and all that

1926
01:10:21,530 --> 01:10:19,380
rest of that stuff and you look at where

1927
01:10:23,870 --> 01:10:21,540
we're at from a genetic standpoint and

1928
01:10:25,850 --> 01:10:23,880
of course that ties into the pandemic

1929
01:10:27,770 --> 01:10:25,860
you know but and then what I was

1930
01:10:30,050 --> 01:10:27,780
interviewing back to Bruce Fenton you

1931
01:10:32,030 --> 01:10:30,060
know independent of anything else he

1932
01:10:34,250 --> 01:10:32,040
says yeah you know they had to take a

1933
01:10:35,930 --> 01:10:34,260
jab in order to cut to genetically

1934
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:35,940
modify themselves in order to visit

1935
01:10:40,189 --> 01:10:37,920
different planets and they weren't able

1936
01:10:44,030 --> 01:10:40,199
to do that and you're like oh my God you

1937
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:44,040
know are are we reaching some point that

1938
01:10:50,149 --> 01:10:48,300
is that crossover point in terms of uh

1939
01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:50,159
genetics where we're going to be able to

1940
01:10:54,169 --> 01:10:52,320
genetically modify and turn into Grays

1941
01:10:56,810 --> 01:10:54,179
or whatever are we also reaching that

1942
01:10:58,610 --> 01:10:56,820
point in terms of technology and AI a

1943
01:11:02,630 --> 01:10:58,620
lot of people are thinking about and

1944
01:11:06,050 --> 01:11:02,640
then what does that mean relative to uh

1945
01:11:09,229 --> 01:11:06,060
how your understanding the core heart

1946
01:11:10,490 --> 01:11:09,239
issues of upside down contact okay I'll

1947
01:11:12,770 --> 01:11:10,500
start with the first one and if I left

1948
01:11:14,510 --> 01:11:12,780
something out just let me know

1949
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:14,520
so this is regarding Bruce Fenton's work

1950
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:15,840
and I mentioned him briefly in the book

1951
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:18,239
and he's doing fascinating work

1952
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:20,159
um and this notion of ancient contact

1953
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,600
and this has been happening this

1954
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:23,520
happened before

1955
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:25,679
um what came up as you were talking Alex

1956
01:11:32,090 --> 01:11:28,560
is the notion that we are very new in

1957
01:11:33,950 --> 01:11:32,100
our current iteration of society to DNA

1958
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:33,960
we have this junk DNA which is the

1959
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:35,280
majority and we don't even know what it

1960
01:11:39,050 --> 01:11:37,199
is so I feel like there's a lot to be

1961
01:11:40,850 --> 01:11:39,060
discovered there about our true Origins

1962
01:11:41,890 --> 01:11:40,860
and what we are and it probably does tie

1963
01:11:44,930 --> 01:11:41,900
into

1964
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:44,940
Bruce's work and I looked a lot at the

1965
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:47,040
ancient mythologies ancient texts from

1966
01:11:49,490 --> 01:11:48,480
different religious Traditions I mean

1967
01:11:51,290 --> 01:11:49,500
some of this you never know what's

1968
01:11:52,550 --> 01:11:51,300
disinformation and what's real I mean

1969
01:11:54,290 --> 01:11:52,560
you always have to be skeptical of that

1970
01:11:56,090 --> 01:11:54,300
but very often they were having

1971
01:11:57,830 --> 01:11:56,100
Supernatural experiences with beings

1972
01:11:59,330 --> 01:11:57,840
that seem to be very Advanced and if you

1973
01:12:01,130 --> 01:11:59,340
correlate the language to what they were

1974
01:12:02,450 --> 01:12:01,140
saying and say well this sounds a lot

1975
01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:02,460
like what people are describing today

1976
01:12:05,810 --> 01:12:04,320
they just use different language like

1977
01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:05,820
the Book of Ezekiel people often talk

1978
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:08,159
about he talks about creatures and fiery

1979
01:12:12,050 --> 01:12:10,320
chariots in the sky I mean who knows but

1980
01:12:13,850 --> 01:12:12,060
there are lots of cases

1981
01:12:15,410 --> 01:12:13,860
um like that and the ancient aspect of

1982
01:12:17,450 --> 01:12:15,420
this is just so critical I don't feel

1983
01:12:19,010 --> 01:12:17,460
like I fully understand it also in the

1984
01:12:22,130 --> 01:12:19,020
in the Hindu tradition in The Vedas they

1985
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:22,140
talk about vimanas these flying saucers

1986
01:12:24,830 --> 01:12:24,239
essentially that were everywhere

1987
01:12:27,229 --> 01:12:24,840
um

1988
01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:27,239
so that's on point one uh point two with

1989
01:12:31,250 --> 01:12:29,760
regard to Corso I mean I looked at a lot

1990
01:12:33,290 --> 01:12:31,260
of what you were describing Alex when I

1991
01:12:35,450 --> 01:12:33,300
was reading his book and evaluating the

1992
01:12:37,850 --> 01:12:35,460
debunkers and I think it was Dr Michael

1993
01:12:40,070 --> 01:12:37,860
Salah who wrote a counter to the

1994
01:12:41,810 --> 01:12:40,080
debunkers it's I think a free pdf he had

1995
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:41,820
online and I was thinking along the same

1996
01:12:44,450 --> 01:12:43,199
lines as you it's like these debunkers

1997
01:12:46,430 --> 01:12:44,460
their arguments aren't super strong

1998
01:12:47,870 --> 01:12:46,440
given what we know now I mean I don't

1999
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,880
know what happened to him but also

2000
01:12:51,770 --> 01:12:49,440
listening to his son talk there are lots

2001
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:51,780
of interviews publicly available he has

2002
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:53,760
a lot of conviction and apparently his

2003
01:12:57,590 --> 01:12:55,440
his family has had to go through a lot

2004
01:12:58,970 --> 01:12:57,600
like CIA showing up at his house I mean

2005
01:13:01,250 --> 01:12:58,980
paraphrasing

2006
01:13:02,510 --> 01:13:01,260
um and he asked the question uh in one

2007
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:02,520
of his interviews why would they do that

2008
01:13:05,510 --> 01:13:04,080
if there was nothing there and

2009
01:13:07,070 --> 01:13:05,520
apparently on his deathbed his father

2010
01:13:09,530 --> 01:13:07,080
Philip Corso said I wish I hadn't

2011
01:13:11,689 --> 01:13:09,540
written this book because of all the all

2012
01:13:13,490 --> 01:13:11,699
the Flack his family had to take so that

2013
01:13:15,709 --> 01:13:13,500
that's significant I mean I don't know

2014
01:13:17,149 --> 01:13:15,719
what happened but his book has so much

2015
01:13:20,030 --> 01:13:17,159
detail in there it's just it's

2016
01:13:21,709 --> 01:13:20,040
fascinating so now your third question

2017
01:13:22,910 --> 01:13:21,719
about are we at an inflection point

2018
01:13:25,729 --> 01:13:22,920
basically

2019
01:13:27,709 --> 01:13:25,739
and I like you of have had a resistance

2020
01:13:28,850 --> 01:13:27,719
to this because basically at every point

2021
01:13:30,169 --> 01:13:28,860
in time people think they're at the

2022
01:13:32,990 --> 01:13:30,179
inflection point

2023
01:13:34,550 --> 01:13:33,000
I do think there are differences here

2024
01:13:36,169 --> 01:13:34,560
because we're at a different point

2025
01:13:37,610 --> 01:13:36,179
technologically

2026
01:13:38,930 --> 01:13:37,620
although if you talk to people who

2027
01:13:40,370 --> 01:13:38,940
believe in Atlantis and things like that

2028
01:13:43,010 --> 01:13:40,380
they'll say well they were Advanced like

2029
01:13:45,169 --> 01:13:43,020
we are but let's say this iteration of

2030
01:13:46,250 --> 01:13:45,179
humanity we have a level of Technology

2031
01:13:48,050 --> 01:13:46,260
now

2032
01:13:49,790 --> 01:13:48,060
where Advanced surveillance is

2033
01:13:51,169 --> 01:13:49,800
completely possible like the craziest

2034
01:13:53,630 --> 01:13:51,179
conspiracy theories people were talking

2035
01:13:55,610 --> 01:13:53,640
about decades ago they're not far away

2036
01:13:57,470 --> 01:13:55,620
where yeah you just need to use this

2037
01:13:58,910 --> 01:13:57,480
microchip or you just gotta take

2038
01:14:01,130 --> 01:13:58,920
whatever we tell you and then you can

2039
01:14:04,010 --> 01:14:01,140
live in our world

2040
01:14:05,689 --> 01:14:04,020
um and by the way it's mRNA I mean

2041
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:05,699
things like that it's it makes you

2042
01:14:09,290 --> 01:14:07,440
concerned given

2043
01:14:11,209 --> 01:14:09,300
the rest of the context on its own it

2044
01:14:12,770 --> 01:14:11,219
sounds crazy but if you see that these

2045
01:14:16,130 --> 01:14:12,780
beings are involved in genetic

2046
01:14:18,590 --> 01:14:16,140
modification and some of them seem to

2047
01:14:20,090 --> 01:14:18,600
have negative intent I think a lot about

2048
01:14:20,870 --> 01:14:20,100
what's happening in the world and

2049
01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:20,880
whether

2050
01:14:24,890 --> 01:14:23,520
there is some kind of dark agenda or

2051
01:14:26,510 --> 01:14:24,900
maybe a gen does I don't know if it's

2052
01:14:27,649 --> 01:14:26,520
monolithic or maybe it's monolithic at

2053
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:27,659
some level of Consciousness but it

2054
01:14:31,970 --> 01:14:30,239
manifests as like mafia families but

2055
01:14:35,209 --> 01:14:31,980
there's a movement

2056
01:14:36,169 --> 01:14:35,219
toward people being less free and also

2057
01:14:38,450 --> 01:14:36,179
less human

2058
01:14:40,610 --> 01:14:38,460
this transhumanist idea that we should

2059
01:14:42,410 --> 01:14:40,620
just be something else or merge with

2060
01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:42,420
machines as if what we have is not

2061
01:14:45,950 --> 01:14:43,980
sufficient there's there's this movement

2062
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:45,960
away from the natural I continue to see

2063
01:14:49,610 --> 01:14:48,239
and it's in many ways anti-human

2064
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:49,620
anti-life

2065
01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:51,600
it's just like ah humans or whatever we

2066
01:14:55,189 --> 01:14:53,520
should just enhance ourselves and forget

2067
01:14:57,050 --> 01:14:55,199
about it and it's taking away from some

2068
01:14:58,130 --> 01:14:57,060
of the core spiritual Essence so when I

2069
01:14:59,870 --> 01:14:58,140
look at this in the context of

2070
01:15:02,149 --> 01:14:59,880
everything I've learned it's incredibly

2071
01:15:04,330 --> 01:15:02,159
nefarious and you see little hints of it

2072
01:15:06,830 --> 01:15:04,340
showing up in different parts of society

2073
01:15:08,750 --> 01:15:06,840
but when you look at it from this lens I

2074
01:15:10,130 --> 01:15:08,760
think it's super evil what's happening

2075
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:10,140
so I have this very skeptical

2076
01:15:13,010 --> 01:15:11,760
conspiratorial lens of what's happening

2077
01:15:14,930 --> 01:15:13,020
in the world I think we need to be very

2078
01:15:17,149 --> 01:15:14,940
careful about some of the things that

2079
01:15:18,590 --> 01:15:17,159
might sound benevolent and maybe some of

2080
01:15:19,729 --> 01:15:18,600
the people involved have a benevolent

2081
01:15:21,890 --> 01:15:19,739
intent

2082
01:15:23,450 --> 01:15:21,900
but who knows what could that do to our

2083
01:15:25,370 --> 01:15:23,460
soul and I don't know the answer to this

2084
01:15:27,350 --> 01:15:25,380
but could there be something that keeps

2085
01:15:29,390 --> 01:15:27,360
the soul from evolving as much because

2086
01:15:31,669 --> 01:15:29,400
we take away from our innate experience

2087
01:15:33,890 --> 01:15:31,679
those are the kinds of questions that I

2088
01:15:36,110 --> 01:15:33,900
have what kind of answers do you have

2089
01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:36,120
and then I'll tell you my answers what

2090
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:37,980
do you think well I would say they're

2091
01:15:43,130 --> 01:15:40,560
alternative but I I think we have to be

2092
01:15:45,169 --> 01:15:43,140
very wary of all this stuff

2093
01:15:47,149 --> 01:15:45,179
um and like I said earlier protect the

2094
01:15:48,830 --> 01:15:47,159
souls if we have to defend ourselves and

2095
01:15:49,729 --> 01:15:48,840
I do see that as a spiritual Duty some

2096
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:49,739
people would say Mark you're being

2097
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:52,080
selfish and individualistic I see this a

2098
01:15:54,890 --> 01:15:53,520
lot and there's divide in a spiritual

2099
01:15:56,870 --> 01:15:54,900
World about it but I think the

2100
01:15:59,450 --> 01:15:56,880
individual is a vehicle through which

2101
01:16:02,570 --> 01:15:59,460
the spirituality manifests the one mind

2102
01:16:04,669 --> 01:16:02,580
some would call it this Universal love

2103
01:16:06,410 --> 01:16:04,679
is manifesting through a set of

2104
01:16:08,330 --> 01:16:06,420
individuals so we're both the collective

2105
01:16:10,310 --> 01:16:08,340
and the individual and you have to

2106
01:16:12,169 --> 01:16:10,320
protect yourself so that you can be of

2107
01:16:14,270 --> 01:16:12,179
service I talk a lot about this in my

2108
01:16:15,709 --> 01:16:14,280
second book like I ask the question what

2109
01:16:16,910 --> 01:16:15,719
is the overall intention of your life in

2110
01:16:19,370 --> 01:16:16,920
that book and I try to get to the answer

2111
01:16:22,189 --> 01:16:19,380
for myself and I give a long answer in

2112
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:22,199
the end but the first sentence of it is

2113
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:25,260
paraphrasing myself is that we are

2114
01:16:29,390 --> 01:16:27,360
here to try to perfect ourselves as much

2115
01:16:31,550 --> 01:16:29,400
as we can so that we can be pure vessels

2116
01:16:32,510 --> 01:16:31,560
for this greater intelligence to be of

2117
01:16:34,310 --> 01:16:32,520
service

2118
01:16:35,689 --> 01:16:34,320
and that means we have to look out and

2119
01:16:37,189 --> 01:16:35,699
be very skeptical of the things

2120
01:16:39,169 --> 01:16:37,199
happening around us and not just take

2121
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:39,179
what the expert says because that

2122
01:16:42,890 --> 01:16:41,520
person's on TV and sounds really nice we

2123
01:16:44,630 --> 01:16:42,900
really have to question every narrative

2124
01:16:46,970 --> 01:16:44,640
and to me if the last two plus years

2125
01:16:49,070 --> 01:16:46,980
haven't proven that what else will I

2126
01:16:50,810 --> 01:16:49,080
mean every narrative has

2127
01:16:52,189 --> 01:16:50,820
I don't need to tell you about that but

2128
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:52,199
we should be questioning what they're

2129
01:16:55,010 --> 01:16:53,760
pushing on us when they say this is in

2130
01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:55,020
your best interest we need to ask

2131
01:16:59,510 --> 01:16:57,120
ourselves first is this in my best

2132
01:17:01,310 --> 01:16:59,520
interests and I I notice some people

2133
01:17:02,750 --> 01:17:01,320
just kind of want to go along with it

2134
01:17:04,729 --> 01:17:02,760
and not ask that question it takes a lot

2135
01:17:06,169 --> 01:17:04,739
of energy to do what I'm describing and

2136
01:17:07,390 --> 01:17:06,179
it takes a lot of thought but to me it's

2137
01:17:10,310 --> 01:17:07,400
essential

2138
01:17:13,550 --> 01:17:10,320
so how does that manifest in terms of

2139
01:17:15,649 --> 01:17:13,560
personal practices in your life I don't

2140
01:17:17,930 --> 01:17:15,659
want to tag it with spiritual practices

2141
01:17:21,770 --> 01:17:17,940
because I want it to be broader than

2142
01:17:23,330 --> 01:17:21,780
that just how do you how do you do that

2143
01:17:24,890 --> 01:17:23,340
well I'd say I would divide it into two

2144
01:17:26,689 --> 01:17:24,900
categories one is probably traditional

2145
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:26,699
spiritual practice so I do meditate and

2146
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:28,500
do breathing exercises and stuff like

2147
01:17:32,810 --> 01:17:30,480
that and then the other practice is a

2148
01:17:34,970 --> 01:17:32,820
general one which is just learning

2149
01:17:36,590 --> 01:17:34,980
I want to learn as much as I can because

2150
01:17:38,330 --> 01:17:36,600
then I know how to navigate better when

2151
01:17:40,189 --> 01:17:38,340
I have more information and that's a

2152
01:17:42,290 --> 01:17:40,199
practice some in the yoga tradition they

2153
01:17:44,450 --> 01:17:42,300
call it Yana yoga the pathway of

2154
01:17:45,890 --> 01:17:44,460
knowledge and wisdom but that that's a

2155
01:17:48,590 --> 01:17:45,900
practice to me

2156
01:17:51,310 --> 01:17:48,600
I totally can relate to that I think

2157
01:17:54,830 --> 01:17:51,320
that's awesome if you will

2158
01:17:58,669 --> 01:17:54,840
what is that learning mean to you

2159
01:18:02,390 --> 01:17:58,679
because I could just speak to myself

2160
01:18:05,090 --> 01:18:02,400
I can do learning and get in a rut on my

2161
01:18:07,790 --> 01:18:05,100
learning too is that I'm not broadly

2162
01:18:09,410 --> 01:18:07,800
looking at you know developing myself

2163
01:18:11,209 --> 01:18:09,420
spiritual and the great spiritual

2164
01:18:14,270 --> 01:18:11,219
Traditions the great spiritual Masters

2165
01:18:16,430 --> 01:18:14,280
that have come before can and I know

2166
01:18:18,590 --> 01:18:16,440
you're totally into this but can provide

2167
01:18:22,010 --> 01:18:18,600
great learning but at the same time

2168
01:18:25,310 --> 01:18:22,020
current events your book can be tremend

2169
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:25,320
all your books uh collectively and I'm

2170
01:18:28,189 --> 01:18:26,400
sure you experience this because I'm

2171
01:18:31,490 --> 01:18:28,199
sure people email you and talk to you

2172
01:18:32,750 --> 01:18:31,500
can be truly transformative for people

2173
01:18:35,149 --> 01:18:32,760
who haven't

2174
01:18:37,010 --> 01:18:35,159
and open to this information well you

2175
01:18:38,570 --> 01:18:37,020
know didn't even know about it or

2176
01:18:41,149 --> 01:18:38,580
weren't open to it before and you bring

2177
01:18:43,689 --> 01:18:41,159
a different thing on it so

2178
01:18:46,010 --> 01:18:43,699
how do you decide how to learn

2179
01:18:48,410 --> 01:18:46,020
it's a great question and it's evolved

2180
01:18:50,270 --> 01:18:48,420
for me in these last six years and even

2181
01:18:51,950 --> 01:18:50,280
before that professionally

2182
01:18:53,630 --> 01:18:51,960
it's it's a trial and error process

2183
01:18:56,090 --> 01:18:53,640
that's the way I describe it really the

2184
01:18:57,830 --> 01:18:56,100
whole spiritual path is trial and error

2185
01:19:00,050 --> 01:18:57,840
and it's like you touch the stove and

2186
01:19:01,790 --> 01:19:00,060
you realize when it's hot and I start to

2187
01:19:04,310 --> 01:19:01,800
pick up those patterns of what what

2188
01:19:05,990 --> 01:19:04,320
rabbit holes not to go down I like to

2189
01:19:07,490 --> 01:19:06,000
look at everything first even things

2190
01:19:09,410 --> 01:19:07,500
that I don't think are true I want to

2191
01:19:10,970 --> 01:19:09,420
know why someone believes it because

2192
01:19:12,350 --> 01:19:10,980
usually they have a real conviction if

2193
01:19:14,030 --> 01:19:12,360
it's not totally disinformation some

2194
01:19:15,530 --> 01:19:14,040
people believe things that aren't true I

2195
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:15,540
want to know why like where where did

2196
01:19:19,370 --> 01:19:17,760
their error occur because I want to find

2197
01:19:21,530 --> 01:19:19,380
that for myself where am I potentially

2198
01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:21,540
going wrong so it's this constant

2199
01:19:25,310 --> 01:19:23,520
questioning process it's a skeptical

2200
01:19:27,770 --> 01:19:25,320
process but also an open-minded one

2201
01:19:30,110 --> 01:19:27,780
where I want to take everything in

2202
01:19:32,450 --> 01:19:30,120
and I try not so I've also been looking

2203
01:19:33,950 --> 01:19:32,460
into the psychology of reasoning a lot

2204
01:19:35,209 --> 01:19:33,960
recently I mean I studied psychology in

2205
01:19:37,090 --> 01:19:35,219
undergrad but I'm trying to understand

2206
01:19:41,510 --> 01:19:37,100
the world that we're living in and how

2207
01:19:43,010 --> 01:19:41,520
smart people can be fooled by things and

2208
01:19:45,350 --> 01:19:43,020
there's this psychological phenomenon

2209
01:19:46,970 --> 01:19:45,360
known as motivated reasoning

2210
01:19:48,770 --> 01:19:46,980
where if you don't want to believe

2211
01:19:50,990 --> 01:19:48,780
something

2212
01:19:53,750 --> 01:19:51,000
and you find one fact that potentially

2213
01:19:55,490 --> 01:19:53,760
proves your point you'll stop there

2214
01:19:58,490 --> 01:19:55,500
say I'm good I don't need to go any

2215
01:19:59,689 --> 01:19:58,500
further it's happening everywhere so but

2216
01:20:01,669 --> 01:19:59,699
it's being aware of those cognitive

2217
01:20:03,229 --> 01:20:01,679
biases that we have because we all have

2218
01:20:05,450 --> 01:20:03,239
them they're kind of innate into our

2219
01:20:07,970 --> 01:20:05,460
built into by our biology and it's

2220
01:20:10,250 --> 01:20:07,980
likely for our survival as a biological

2221
01:20:12,410 --> 01:20:10,260
organism to have these shortcuts but

2222
01:20:13,790 --> 01:20:12,420
they can lead to biases that get us away

2223
01:20:15,530 --> 01:20:13,800
from the truth so it's a constant

2224
01:20:18,530 --> 01:20:15,540
questioning process

2225
01:20:19,729 --> 01:20:18,540
and I mean because my my Learning

2226
01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:19,739
Journey has taken me on so many

2227
01:20:23,270 --> 01:20:21,600
different paths like at one point I was

2228
01:20:26,629 --> 01:20:23,280
I wanted to know all about this really

2229
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:26,639
dark evil stuff which is taxing to learn

2230
01:20:29,689 --> 01:20:27,840
about that

2231
01:20:30,890 --> 01:20:29,699
it's not fun to do it but there was this

2232
01:20:32,870 --> 01:20:30,900
point where I'm like I just have to know

2233
01:20:35,330 --> 01:20:32,880
what's going on here and it's like you

2234
01:20:36,530 --> 01:20:35,340
cringing reading pages and then I got to

2235
01:20:38,090 --> 01:20:36,540
a point where I just didn't need to

2236
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:38,100
learn the details anymore so it's

2237
01:20:41,870 --> 01:20:40,080
knowing when to pull back and say I know

2238
01:20:43,970 --> 01:20:41,880
enough here maybe sometimes I'll revisit

2239
01:20:45,770 --> 01:20:43,980
this in the future but at a certain

2240
01:20:47,930 --> 01:20:45,780
point you pull back from certain topics

2241
01:20:49,850 --> 01:20:47,940
where it's like this 80 20 rule or 90 10

2242
01:20:52,010 --> 01:20:49,860
you've got the essence of it and you

2243
01:20:53,149 --> 01:20:52,020
don't need to go as far into it and

2244
01:20:55,010 --> 01:20:53,159
there are other areas where I need to

2245
01:20:58,189 --> 01:20:55,020
learn more

2246
01:21:01,550 --> 01:20:58,199
and then I mean I look for things that

2247
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:01,560
that seem to have practical value

2248
01:21:05,870 --> 01:21:03,840
to my own path

2249
01:21:07,550 --> 01:21:05,880
and at some points that's learning the

2250
01:21:10,370 --> 01:21:07,560
spiritual enlightenment path if you want

2251
01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:10,380
to call it Ken Wilbur uh the philosopher

2252
01:21:14,450 --> 01:21:12,239
has this phrase that I like to refer to

2253
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:14,460
a lot he calls it waking up cleaning up

2254
01:21:17,510 --> 01:21:15,840
and growing up

2255
01:21:19,250 --> 01:21:17,520
that there are multiple lines of

2256
01:21:21,350 --> 01:21:19,260
development that we have and they're

2257
01:21:23,510 --> 01:21:21,360
relatively independent of each other so

2258
01:21:24,530 --> 01:21:23,520
waking up is yeah I want to achieve the

2259
01:21:25,790 --> 01:21:24,540
Oneness but you could have this

2260
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:25,800
enlightened teacher who hasn't done the

2261
01:21:29,030 --> 01:21:26,880
growing up or the cleaning up and they

2262
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:29,040
turn into some kind of a fascist we've

2263
01:21:32,870 --> 01:21:30,960
seen that happen a lot so I try to hit

2264
01:21:35,390 --> 01:21:32,880
these different areas in my own growth

2265
01:21:37,070 --> 01:21:35,400
and especially over the last two plus

2266
01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:37,080
years when covet hit because I should

2267
01:21:41,930 --> 01:21:39,120
add this I was never interested in

2268
01:21:43,250 --> 01:21:41,940
politics at all before 2020. zero

2269
01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:43,260
interest the only time I had some

2270
01:21:46,070 --> 01:21:44,580
interest is when it related to patent

2271
01:21:47,689 --> 01:21:46,080
law because I was involved in that space

2272
01:21:49,010 --> 01:21:47,699
professionally I couldn't have even told

2273
01:21:50,149 --> 01:21:49,020
you if it was right or left that cared

2274
01:21:51,290 --> 01:21:50,159
about stuff I just cared about that

2275
01:21:53,090 --> 01:21:51,300
specific thing

2276
01:21:54,590 --> 01:21:53,100
and then I realized well I need to learn

2277
01:21:56,090 --> 01:21:54,600
about this Mark you can't be ignorant

2278
01:21:57,950 --> 01:21:56,100
about these topics so I've had to dive

2279
01:21:59,810 --> 01:21:57,960
into that in order to learn how to

2280
01:22:01,790 --> 01:21:59,820
navigate but also

2281
01:22:03,770 --> 01:22:01,800
if I'm putting information out there to

2282
01:22:05,209 --> 01:22:03,780
people I'm trying to express the truth

2283
01:22:07,970 --> 01:22:05,219
as much as I can and there's a real

2284
01:22:10,189 --> 01:22:07,980
obligation in that to present the truth

2285
01:22:11,390 --> 01:22:10,199
and not to lead people astray and maybe

2286
01:22:13,129 --> 01:22:11,400
part of the reason I've written multiple

2287
01:22:14,330 --> 01:22:13,139
books and did a podcast series is that I

2288
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:14,340
do something and I realized I was

2289
01:22:18,169 --> 01:22:16,320
missing something I'm like oh I'm

2290
01:22:19,370 --> 01:22:18,179
incomplete I gotta let people know if

2291
01:22:21,649 --> 01:22:19,380
they're reading my stuff and then it

2292
01:22:23,330 --> 01:22:21,659
turned into something else so there's a

2293
01:22:24,890 --> 01:22:23,340
sense of a duty to try to present the

2294
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:24,900
truth as much as possible so for my

2295
01:22:27,890 --> 01:22:26,400
journey it leads me into those other

2296
01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:27,900
areas too

2297
01:22:32,810 --> 01:22:30,900
that's really awesome Mark I am so

2298
01:22:35,090 --> 01:22:32,820
appreciative for you sharing all that

2299
01:22:36,290 --> 01:22:35,100
and you know just to recap some of the

2300
01:22:38,990 --> 01:22:36,300
things that I took out of that thought

2301
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:39,000
that were particularly insightful is

2302
01:22:43,729 --> 01:22:41,520
this kind of ability to move from the

2303
01:22:48,050 --> 01:22:43,739
telescope to the microscope you know and

2304
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:48,060
to do it fluidly and with purpose of

2305
01:22:53,090 --> 01:22:50,400
this kind of meta-purpose of weight

2306
01:22:56,030 --> 01:22:53,100
there is a there is a me in there like

2307
01:22:59,510 --> 01:22:56,040
your first book upside down thinking

2308
01:23:01,610 --> 01:22:59,520
I that voice inside my head is real and

2309
01:23:04,129 --> 01:23:01,620
it is directing me it seems to be

2310
01:23:06,169 --> 01:23:04,139
directing me from my life experience I

2311
01:23:08,570 --> 01:23:06,179
can't deny that and that's kind of the

2312
01:23:11,689 --> 01:23:08,580
meta you know the meta knowledge that

2313
01:23:14,450 --> 01:23:11,699
that's what's going on and then to

2314
01:23:16,910 --> 01:23:14,460
you've used the term earlier and I

2315
01:23:19,610 --> 01:23:16,920
forget where it was but kind of cleaning

2316
01:23:22,910 --> 01:23:19,620
the cleaning the process or you know the

2317
01:23:25,850 --> 01:23:22,920
the mechanism this tool that we have of

2318
01:23:28,689 --> 01:23:25,860
our soul inside our body and our

2319
01:23:31,430 --> 01:23:28,699
discernment thing we have to keep that

2320
01:23:33,649 --> 01:23:31,440
tuned up which is the other part of what

2321
01:23:35,570 --> 01:23:33,659
you're saying with your meditation work

2322
01:23:38,030 --> 01:23:35,580
and your just spiritual work it's like

2323
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:38,040
hey if if I don't have that together

2324
01:23:42,950 --> 01:23:40,320
then I'm not going to be able to go and

2325
01:23:45,470 --> 01:23:42,960
refine it in these other ways I think

2326
01:23:47,689 --> 01:23:45,480
that's just really terrific and the way

2327
01:23:49,689 --> 01:23:47,699
that you put it I thought was was really

2328
01:23:53,030 --> 01:23:49,699
helpful and I think it'll help people

2329
01:23:55,370 --> 01:23:53,040
understand where you're coming from in

2330
01:23:57,950 --> 01:23:55,380
these books because it is a reoccurring

2331
01:24:01,310 --> 01:23:57,960
Fame in your books wouldn't you say

2332
01:24:03,770 --> 01:24:01,320
yes and I mean

2333
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:03,780
I'm deconstructing this myself as I go

2334
01:24:07,010 --> 01:24:05,760
in the journey like I'm able to speak

2335
01:24:08,510 --> 01:24:07,020
more clearly about things that have

2336
01:24:10,430 --> 01:24:08,520
happened in the past because I have the

2337
01:24:11,870 --> 01:24:10,440
the hindsight view but as I was going

2338
01:24:13,310 --> 01:24:11,880
through it I might not have had the same

2339
01:24:16,669 --> 01:24:13,320
Clarity and I'm sure the same will be

2340
01:24:17,990 --> 01:24:16,679
true in the future uh so one thing I

2341
01:24:21,169 --> 01:24:18,000
would add to it

2342
01:24:23,450 --> 01:24:21,179
this notion of tuning up the individual

2343
01:24:24,950 --> 01:24:23,460
um I think like physical exercise is an

2344
01:24:27,530 --> 01:24:24,960
important part of that too and diet like

2345
01:24:29,090 --> 01:24:27,540
keeping the physical vessel tuned is

2346
01:24:30,590 --> 01:24:29,100
really important and in my second book

2347
01:24:33,169 --> 01:24:30,600
and end upside down living I talk about

2348
01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:33,179
four of the yoga yogic paths which I've

2349
01:24:37,910 --> 01:24:34,800
kind of combined

2350
01:24:39,410 --> 01:24:37,920
um into what works for me and I say that

2351
01:24:41,149 --> 01:24:39,420
the spiritual path is basically these

2352
01:24:43,850 --> 01:24:41,159
four areas one is the wisdom knowledge

2353
01:24:46,129 --> 01:24:43,860
path the other is the service path the

2354
01:24:48,290 --> 01:24:46,139
other is the devotion and the other the

2355
01:24:51,229 --> 01:24:48,300
fourth one is energy which can be

2356
01:24:53,030 --> 01:24:51,239
physical exercise meditation those sorts

2357
01:24:55,850 --> 01:24:53,040
of things so knowledge wisdom selfless

2358
01:24:56,990 --> 01:24:55,860
service devotion and energy I try to hit

2359
01:25:00,229 --> 01:24:57,000
those for

2360
01:25:03,370 --> 01:25:00,239
at all points as much as I can

2361
01:25:07,430 --> 01:25:03,380
awesome so finally as we wrap things up

2362
01:25:09,970 --> 01:25:07,440
that is so inspiring and so positive so

2363
01:25:12,950 --> 01:25:09,980
fundamentally uplifting

2364
01:25:15,830 --> 01:25:12,960
relate that if you will to this book

2365
01:25:18,290 --> 01:25:15,840
which can be challenging like you said

2366
01:25:20,030 --> 01:25:18,300
people skip over I'm sure people will be

2367
01:25:21,830 --> 01:25:20,040
skipping over maybe the whole book like

2368
01:25:25,010 --> 01:25:21,840
I don't want to go there but the book

2369
01:25:26,990 --> 01:25:25,020
and into upside down contact UFOs aliens

2370
01:25:28,610 --> 01:25:27,000
and spirits and why their ongoing

2371
01:25:32,270 --> 01:25:28,620
interaction with human civilization

2372
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:32,280
matters so overlay if you will because

2373
01:25:35,990 --> 01:25:33,600
it really is the whole thing we've been

2374
01:25:38,750 --> 01:25:36,000
talking about how you can do both how

2375
01:25:41,209 --> 01:25:38,760
you can manage both

2376
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:41,219
this is one of the challenges in the

2377
01:25:45,290 --> 01:25:42,719
spiritual path I'm appreciating more and

2378
01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:45,300
more which is paradox

2379
01:25:49,250 --> 01:25:47,520
the ability to hold contradictory or

2380
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:49,260
seemingly contradictory ideas together

2381
01:25:53,689 --> 01:25:51,840
in tandem at the same time acknowledge

2382
01:25:56,090 --> 01:25:53,699
that they both have truth to them

2383
01:25:57,649 --> 01:25:56,100
and they're not mutually exclusive so I

2384
01:26:00,530 --> 01:25:57,659
say that and I'm harping on it because

2385
01:26:02,030 --> 01:26:00,540
there's a lot of Darkness that exists

2386
01:26:03,649 --> 01:26:02,040
and there's a lot of good stuff that

2387
01:26:06,169 --> 01:26:03,659
exists too

2388
01:26:07,729 --> 01:26:06,179
to me comes back to the beginning of our

2389
01:26:10,490 --> 01:26:07,739
conversation that it's important to be

2390
01:26:12,350 --> 01:26:10,500
aware of this stuff not to get too

2391
01:26:13,669 --> 01:26:12,360
pulled emotionally into the darkness but

2392
01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:13,679
to know about it almost in an

2393
01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:15,120
unemotional way at times that can be

2394
01:26:19,850 --> 01:26:17,760
helpful because the emotions can skew

2395
01:26:21,709 --> 01:26:19,860
our logic to acknowledge that it's there

2396
01:26:23,450 --> 01:26:21,719
so that we can steer our lives and

2397
01:26:25,010 --> 01:26:23,460
hopefully our society in a positive

2398
01:26:26,689 --> 01:26:25,020
direction but I don't think we can do

2399
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:26,699
that unless we acknowledge that these

2400
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:29,040
truths exist so back to your very first

2401
01:26:31,790 --> 01:26:30,480
question about it my concern about

2402
01:26:32,930 --> 01:26:31,800
writing a book like this and really all

2403
01:26:35,510 --> 01:26:32,940
the books

2404
01:26:38,930 --> 01:26:35,520
I don't think there's a choice

2405
01:26:40,669 --> 01:26:38,940
we're gonna have to get to the truth

2406
01:26:43,610 --> 01:26:40,679
otherwise we'll be stuck in a

2407
01:26:45,709 --> 01:26:43,620
manipulative Loop and to me what's

2408
01:26:47,169 --> 01:26:45,719
what's the alternative to the truth with

2409
01:26:50,090 --> 01:26:47,179
that context

2410
01:26:52,610 --> 01:26:50,100
I totally agree and you know finally

2411
01:26:55,250 --> 01:26:52,620
kind of from a Silver Linings Playbook

2412
01:26:57,050 --> 01:26:55,260
kind of perspective

2413
01:27:00,530 --> 01:26:57,060
you know look what's look what's

2414
01:27:02,030 --> 01:27:00,540
happened to us look for for all and I'll

2415
01:27:05,090 --> 01:27:02,040
turn this into a question but I'll start

2416
01:27:08,149 --> 01:27:05,100
with myself the great reset for me has

2417
01:27:10,370 --> 01:27:08,159
been uh unbelievably horrific in terms

2418
01:27:12,169 --> 01:27:10,380
of what it reveals but in a way I

2419
01:27:14,570 --> 01:27:12,179
already knew what it revealed so it just

2420
01:27:17,030 --> 01:27:14,580
kind of confirmed it for me but there

2421
01:27:20,149 --> 01:27:17,040
was a silver lining to it too I'm

2422
01:27:22,250 --> 01:27:20,159
outside so much more I'm outside all the

2423
01:27:23,750 --> 01:27:22,260
time because it's like that's where I

2424
01:27:26,830 --> 01:27:23,760
want to be I want to be outside I want

2425
01:27:29,930 --> 01:27:26,840
to be living I'm in nature I'm closer to

2426
01:27:32,450 --> 01:27:29,940
explicitly cold closer to my family and

2427
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:32,460
my kids not in a way that bugs them too

2428
01:27:37,129 --> 01:27:34,320
much I hope but just in a way of like

2429
01:27:40,430 --> 01:27:37,139
why am I sweating about the little stuff

2430
01:27:42,590 --> 01:27:40,440
the the great reset is my great reset

2431
01:27:45,169 --> 01:27:42,600
it's my personal research I'm not going

2432
01:27:47,629 --> 01:27:45,179
to let them own that reset and I think

2433
01:27:49,790 --> 01:27:47,639
I've spoken with many other people who

2434
01:27:51,590 --> 01:27:49,800
do see it the same way and it is that

2435
01:27:54,110 --> 01:27:51,600
path that hero's journey that you're

2436
01:27:57,890 --> 01:27:54,120
talking about it's walking up to the

2437
01:28:00,649 --> 01:27:57,900
edge of the Abyss and looking in and not

2438
01:28:02,390 --> 01:28:00,659
falling in and looking in and saying I

2439
01:28:05,689 --> 01:28:02,400
will be stronger I will be better

2440
01:28:09,110 --> 01:28:05,699
because I must and what do you what do

2441
01:28:12,350 --> 01:28:09,120
you think about your great reset yeah

2442
01:28:15,290 --> 01:28:12,360
well I've certainly had one and I I left

2443
01:28:18,110 --> 01:28:15,300
my firm I gave notice to my my business

2444
01:28:19,850 --> 01:28:18,120
partners in December of 2019 and phased

2445
01:28:22,729 --> 01:28:19,860
out of the firm over the first few

2446
01:28:24,290 --> 01:28:22,739
months of 2020. so I had this intuition

2447
01:28:25,790 --> 01:28:24,300
that I needed to leave my job after I'd

2448
01:28:27,530 --> 01:28:25,800
become Partners spent 10 years working

2449
01:28:29,149 --> 01:28:27,540
my way up I was in a great situation

2450
01:28:31,010 --> 01:28:29,159
great people the smartest in the

2451
01:28:33,290 --> 01:28:31,020
industry and what they do I mean ideal

2452
01:28:35,090 --> 01:28:33,300
if you look at it from my old world view

2453
01:28:36,590 --> 01:28:35,100
uh but I decided

2454
01:28:37,970 --> 01:28:36,600
I was going to leave and I wasn't sure

2455
01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:37,980
what was going to be next it wasn't like

2456
01:28:41,810 --> 01:28:39,960
I was going to a competitor I just said

2457
01:28:43,129 --> 01:28:41,820
I need to pursue this other stuff I

2458
01:28:44,330 --> 01:28:43,139
didn't even have a second book in mind

2459
01:28:46,430 --> 01:28:44,340
at the time

2460
01:28:48,770 --> 01:28:46,440
and then I went on I went on an

2461
01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:48,780
ayurvedic retreat in New Mexico I went

2462
01:28:52,490 --> 01:28:50,639
on two silent meditation Retreats for

2463
01:28:54,169 --> 01:28:52,500
about a week each a little under a week

2464
01:28:56,750 --> 01:28:54,179
each one with adyashanti and another

2465
01:28:59,390 --> 01:28:56,760
with his wife mukti so three retreats in

2466
01:29:00,709 --> 01:28:59,400
five weeks in early 2020 which was a

2467
01:29:02,149 --> 01:29:00,719
form of a reset for me because I

2468
01:29:02,990 --> 01:29:02,159
couldn't sit still for 15 minutes before

2469
01:29:10,129 --> 01:29:03,000
that

2470
01:29:13,250 --> 01:29:10,139
for on average probably five hours a day

2471
01:29:15,229 --> 01:29:13,260
just sitting

2472
01:29:18,770 --> 01:29:15,239
um feeling this whatever energy coming

2473
01:29:21,169 --> 01:29:18,780
through learning a lot too but also just

2474
01:29:23,149 --> 01:29:21,179
sitting and it felt like a bleaching

2475
01:29:24,890 --> 01:29:23,159
that's the best way to describe it if

2476
01:29:26,750 --> 01:29:24,900
you imagine Rough Waters the waters

2477
01:29:29,390 --> 01:29:26,760
became a little more still

2478
01:29:31,010 --> 01:29:29,400
and so that that was a big reset for me

2479
01:29:32,689 --> 01:29:31,020
but it was also reset in terms of a new

2480
01:29:34,129 --> 01:29:32,699
paradigm shift like I said I wasn't

2481
01:29:36,229 --> 01:29:34,139
interested in politics or any of the

2482
01:29:37,610 --> 01:29:36,239
worldly stuff at all before

2483
01:29:38,510 --> 01:29:37,620
um and even when I got into spiritual

2484
01:29:40,669 --> 01:29:38,520
stuff I was interested in the

2485
01:29:43,310 --> 01:29:40,679
metaphysical and the reach Enlightenment

2486
01:29:44,870 --> 01:29:43,320
which all is very important too but then

2487
01:29:46,430 --> 01:29:44,880
I realized I gotta understand what's

2488
01:29:48,590 --> 01:29:46,440
going on in the world and that was a

2489
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:48,600
reset understanding the extent of evil

2490
01:29:51,950 --> 01:29:50,400
some of which I saw professionally I saw

2491
01:29:53,209 --> 01:29:51,960
some systemic horrible stuff which

2492
01:29:54,649 --> 01:29:53,219
aligns with what's happening in the

2493
01:29:56,510 --> 01:29:54,659
world corruption that most people would

2494
01:29:59,629 --> 01:29:56,520
say no that's not possible no it's

2495
01:30:01,490 --> 01:29:59,639
possible there's such corruption not not

2496
01:30:04,030 --> 01:30:01,500
every person but that that phenomenon

2497
01:30:07,370 --> 01:30:04,040
exists I started to see it on this

2498
01:30:09,649 --> 01:30:07,380
bigger level and it's led me down my own

2499
01:30:12,410 --> 01:30:09,659
path which has been incredibly enriching

2500
01:30:13,790 --> 01:30:12,420
as much as there's been bad stuff in the

2501
01:30:15,649 --> 01:30:13,800
world that's caused a lot of trauma and

2502
01:30:18,050 --> 01:30:15,659
death and sickness for sure that's

2503
01:30:20,450 --> 01:30:18,060
happened and mental issues

2504
01:30:22,669 --> 01:30:20,460
um for me it's been very enriching I

2505
01:30:25,850 --> 01:30:22,679
will say the hardest part of it for me

2506
01:30:28,850 --> 01:30:25,860
has been the fact that our society is so

2507
01:30:30,890 --> 01:30:28,860
divided in terms of the way people view

2508
01:30:32,510 --> 01:30:30,900
reality and that makes it practically

2509
01:30:34,310 --> 01:30:32,520
difficult to interact with some people

2510
01:30:36,169 --> 01:30:34,320
when you're literally looking at a

2511
01:30:38,090 --> 01:30:36,179
different world for me that was a little

2512
01:30:39,470 --> 01:30:38,100
bit easier with the metaphysics because

2513
01:30:40,490 --> 01:30:39,480
you could have a different view on

2514
01:30:42,050 --> 01:30:40,500
Consciousness and still talk about

2515
01:30:45,169 --> 01:30:42,060
what's happening in the world now you

2516
01:30:47,030 --> 01:30:45,179
can't especially once you once your eyes

2517
01:30:48,830 --> 01:30:47,040
are open to the conspiratorial lens

2518
01:30:50,629 --> 01:30:48,840
you're in a different reality and it's

2519
01:30:53,390 --> 01:30:50,639
difficult to relate to people in the

2520
01:30:55,129 --> 01:30:53,400
same way people that I like in in many

2521
01:30:56,689 --> 01:30:55,139
ways and I'm mentioning this because I

2522
01:30:58,070 --> 01:30:56,699
hope your listeners can relate it's a

2523
01:30:59,930 --> 01:30:58,080
tough time in that regard and that's

2524
01:31:01,729 --> 01:30:59,940
challenging but probably for some kind

2525
01:31:02,930 --> 01:31:01,739
of enrichment as well to appreciate

2526
01:31:04,970 --> 01:31:02,940
people for where they are in their

2527
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:04,980
Journey have compassion for them I'm

2528
01:31:07,430 --> 01:31:06,000
sure there's stuff I don't know about

2529
01:31:10,370 --> 01:31:07,440
right now that in a few years I'll say

2530
01:31:12,530 --> 01:31:10,380
Mark wow you didn't see it but at the

2531
01:31:14,330 --> 01:31:12,540
same time not getting sucked in

2532
01:31:16,070 --> 01:31:14,340
because of that not getting sucked into

2533
01:31:18,470 --> 01:31:16,080
the dark energy and not conforming just

2534
01:31:21,050 --> 01:31:18,480
because other people around you are

2535
01:31:21,890 --> 01:31:21,060
so one thing I want to say Alex before I

2536
01:31:23,390 --> 01:31:21,900
forget it because this is important

2537
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:23,400
because I have a slightly different view

2538
01:31:26,510 --> 01:31:24,960
on spirituality than I used to and I

2539
01:31:28,070 --> 01:31:26,520
alluded to this before about protecting

2540
01:31:29,570 --> 01:31:28,080
our soul

2541
01:31:31,370 --> 01:31:29,580
there's this notion I'm getting I'm

2542
01:31:32,810 --> 01:31:31,380
coming up with more and more just in my

2543
01:31:35,209 --> 01:31:32,820
thinking about like this idea of a

2544
01:31:36,770 --> 01:31:35,219
spiritual Warrior having that kind of a

2545
01:31:38,030 --> 01:31:36,780
mindset and this relates to my you know

2546
01:31:39,890 --> 01:31:38,040
I used to be a competitive tennis player

2547
01:31:41,810 --> 01:31:39,900
so that's how I used to be there's

2548
01:31:44,149 --> 01:31:41,820
something in that competitive mindset

2549
01:31:46,189 --> 01:31:44,159
that can be applied to this it is love

2550
01:31:47,810 --> 01:31:46,199
and light but we've got to be tough in

2551
01:31:49,990 --> 01:31:47,820
this especially when you're dealing with

2552
01:31:52,850 --> 01:31:50,000
forces that are

2553
01:31:54,530 --> 01:31:52,860
they infringe upon Our Lives they don't

2554
01:31:56,930 --> 01:31:54,540
just exist independently these darker

2555
01:31:58,430 --> 01:31:56,940
forces so we have to be tough we can't

2556
01:32:00,350 --> 01:31:58,440
be weak and that's something I don't see

2557
01:32:02,629 --> 01:32:00,360
as much in the spiritual world

2558
01:32:03,890 --> 01:32:02,639
that's awesome I I totally love that and

2559
01:32:06,530 --> 01:32:03,900
you know the other thing you kind of

2560
01:32:09,169 --> 01:32:06,540
touched on is this kind of go along to

2561
01:32:10,189 --> 01:32:09,179
get along kind of stuff and that's what

2562
01:32:11,629 --> 01:32:10,199
you're talking about and what I'm

2563
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:11,639
talking about as part of the Great reset

2564
01:32:16,629 --> 01:32:13,920
no we don't need to go along to get

2565
01:32:19,370 --> 01:32:16,639
along we just had it we just had like

2566
01:32:21,350 --> 01:32:19,380
two-year play drama of where that what

2567
01:32:23,149 --> 01:32:21,360
that leads to you know and it doesn't

2568
01:32:26,030 --> 01:32:23,159
mean we have to be out with torches and

2569
01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:26,040
pitchforks and you know

2570
01:32:29,990 --> 01:32:28,380
trying to string up everyone we see I

2571
01:32:33,110 --> 01:32:30,000
love the way you put it it's just an

2572
01:32:34,370 --> 01:32:33,120
internal toughness and it also is in in

2573
01:32:36,830 --> 01:32:34,380
a way that you're talking about you know

2574
01:32:37,910 --> 01:32:36,840
the great reset in terms of people that

2575
01:32:40,550 --> 01:32:37,920
you're saying you know there's this more

2576
01:32:43,010 --> 01:32:40,560
divide well you know the positive spin

2577
01:32:45,410 --> 01:32:43,020
on that is you were probably wasting

2578
01:32:48,229 --> 01:32:45,420
your time with people who were kind of

2579
01:32:50,090 --> 01:32:48,239
stuck in a rut anyway and a Stuck on

2580
01:32:51,950 --> 01:32:50,100
Stupid rut and it wasn't really going to

2581
01:32:54,530 --> 01:32:51,960
go anywhere so now

2582
01:32:55,970 --> 01:32:54,540
you have a chance to say okay I can I

2583
01:32:59,149 --> 01:32:55,980
don't have to waste my time over there

2584
01:33:02,090 --> 01:32:59,159
I'll find these people that I really can

2585
01:33:04,250 --> 01:33:02,100
help lift me forward not just with

2586
01:33:06,410 --> 01:33:04,260
inspiration but also with knowledge and

2587
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:06,420
that's what your books are doing yeah it

2588
01:33:10,129 --> 01:33:08,880
gets to this topic of alignment and

2589
01:33:11,390 --> 01:33:10,139
we're like we're like being forced to be

2590
01:33:12,649 --> 01:33:11,400
aligned now there's really no choice

2591
01:33:14,270 --> 01:33:12,659
you're living in one world or the other

2592
01:33:16,010 --> 01:33:14,280
and that can be very rewarding when

2593
01:33:17,209 --> 01:33:16,020
you're in full alignment and that's what

2594
01:33:18,709 --> 01:33:17,219
happened with me professionally and I'm

2595
01:33:20,330 --> 01:33:18,719
going to say this because I would bet

2596
01:33:22,370 --> 01:33:20,340
some of your audience members are in the

2597
01:33:24,169 --> 01:33:22,380
spot too where you're doing something

2598
01:33:26,330 --> 01:33:24,179
doesn't feel fully authentic and it's

2599
01:33:28,729 --> 01:33:26,340
emotionally taxing that's what it came

2600
01:33:30,169 --> 01:33:28,739
to for me where I was working on clients

2601
01:33:31,850 --> 01:33:30,179
and it's serious client work where you

2602
01:33:33,770 --> 01:33:31,860
have to be totally focused on managing

2603
01:33:35,090 --> 01:33:33,780
teams and working on bringing in new

2604
01:33:37,010 --> 01:33:35,100
clients all this trying to do all the

2605
01:33:38,510 --> 01:33:37,020
stuff and then I'm interested in the

2606
01:33:40,790 --> 01:33:38,520
evolution of Consciousness and reading

2607
01:33:42,110 --> 01:33:40,800
these other topics on the side it got to

2608
01:33:44,510 --> 01:33:42,120
a point where I couldn't energetically

2609
01:33:46,910 --> 01:33:44,520
do both it was too much it caused an

2610
01:33:49,189 --> 01:33:46,920
internal anxiety and when I released

2611
01:33:51,290 --> 01:33:49,199
that and I I gave the notice that I'd be

2612
01:33:52,669 --> 01:33:51,300
leaving the firm that's shortly after

2613
01:33:54,470 --> 01:33:52,679
that I said oh there's a second book

2614
01:33:57,530 --> 01:33:54,480
here it was like there was an energetic

2615
01:33:59,570 --> 01:33:57,540
block to what wanted to come in so I

2616
01:34:00,890 --> 01:33:59,580
mentioned that because I don't want to

2617
01:34:02,870 --> 01:34:00,900
say that we should just sit drop

2618
01:34:04,310 --> 01:34:02,880
everything in our lives I mean I for me

2619
01:34:06,050 --> 01:34:04,320
it was three years of being in my job

2620
01:34:07,370 --> 01:34:06,060
after being exposed to this but there's

2621
01:34:09,770 --> 01:34:07,380
something about

2622
01:34:11,810 --> 01:34:09,780
taking a leap at a certain point when it

2623
01:34:13,129 --> 01:34:11,820
makes sense being rational about it but

2624
01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:13,139
finding that full alignment it's

2625
01:34:18,169 --> 01:34:16,260
critical okay Mark what's next

2626
01:34:19,490 --> 01:34:18,179
I know here's a guy who said he didn't

2627
01:34:21,290 --> 01:34:19,500
he didn't even think he had a second

2628
01:34:23,510 --> 01:34:21,300
book after he wrote his first one but

2629
01:34:25,310 --> 01:34:23,520
one how is this book going what's the

2630
01:34:28,370 --> 01:34:25,320
reception been like so far and then

2631
01:34:29,510 --> 01:34:28,380
where are you taking this project well I

2632
01:34:31,129 --> 01:34:29,520
haven't heard from all that many people

2633
01:34:32,390 --> 01:34:31,139
I mean surprisingly I just don't hear

2634
01:34:34,370 --> 01:34:32,400
from that many people in general every

2635
01:34:35,689 --> 01:34:34,380
now and then I do I have heard from

2636
01:34:37,189 --> 01:34:35,699
people that they enjoy it and some

2637
01:34:38,330 --> 01:34:37,199
people enjoy it but they don't want to

2638
01:34:39,709 --> 01:34:38,340
look at the dark stuff as much but

2639
01:34:41,689 --> 01:34:39,719
they're happy they know about it so that

2640
01:34:43,430 --> 01:34:41,699
I appreciate that

2641
01:34:45,890 --> 01:34:43,440
um but I'm trying to get the word out

2642
01:34:47,209 --> 01:34:45,900
about the books for sure mostly because

2643
01:34:48,290 --> 01:34:47,219
I think the information in there is

2644
01:34:49,850 --> 01:34:48,300
really important I would have written

2645
01:34:51,050 --> 01:34:49,860
them otherwise I'm writing them because

2646
01:34:52,250 --> 01:34:51,060
I think there's it's a way to

2647
01:34:53,390 --> 01:34:52,260
concentrate information so you don't

2648
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,400
have to spend all the time that I spent

2649
01:34:56,810 --> 01:34:55,440
it's in one place to

2650
01:34:58,609 --> 01:34:56,820
learn how people are thinking about

2651
01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:58,619
these topics so I'm trying to get the

2652
01:35:02,450 --> 01:34:59,760
word out more

2653
01:35:04,850 --> 01:35:02,460
and in terms of what's next I am I'm

2654
01:35:06,590 --> 01:35:04,860
just constantly researching and I don't

2655
01:35:09,109 --> 01:35:06,600
know what the next project is going to

2656
01:35:10,669 --> 01:35:09,119
be I find myself most interested in

2657
01:35:13,490 --> 01:35:10,679
things happening in the world these days

2658
01:35:15,470 --> 01:35:13,500
like great reset Etc watching the news

2659
01:35:16,930 --> 01:35:15,480
very closely I have a telegram Channel

2660
01:35:19,129 --> 01:35:16,940
because my Instagram channel is

2661
01:35:21,109 --> 01:35:19,139
shadowband it's called Mark Gober

2662
01:35:22,550 --> 01:35:21,119
official where I just share news

2663
01:35:23,930 --> 01:35:22,560
articles it's not with commentary just

2664
01:35:25,850 --> 01:35:23,940
stuff I'm interested in I share it

2665
01:35:26,990 --> 01:35:25,860
because depending on the news you look

2666
01:35:29,090 --> 01:35:27,000
at you have very different view of the

2667
01:35:30,290 --> 01:35:29,100
world and I'm just so curious about

2668
01:35:32,750 --> 01:35:30,300
what's happening and where it's going to

2669
01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:32,760
go and what kinds of mental shifts we're

2670
01:35:35,870 --> 01:35:34,320
going to need to have to break through

2671
01:35:37,250 --> 01:35:35,880
the deception

2672
01:35:38,870 --> 01:35:37,260
where that leads I don't know but that's

2673
01:35:41,030 --> 01:35:38,880
what I'm interested in right now

2674
01:35:43,490 --> 01:35:41,040
well fantastic I think you're having an

2675
01:35:46,430 --> 01:35:43,500
impact I hear from people

2676
01:35:49,010 --> 01:35:46,440
somewhat regularly that are influenced

2677
01:35:51,530 --> 01:35:49,020
or pay attention to what you're doing

2678
01:35:53,209 --> 01:35:51,540
and what you're saying and I think it's

2679
01:35:54,169 --> 01:35:53,219
we're also at a time where we have to be

2680
01:35:57,470 --> 01:35:54,179
really

2681
01:35:59,750 --> 01:35:57,480
mindful about how we measure impact and

2682
01:36:01,370 --> 01:35:59,760
how we measure you know purpose that

2683
01:36:03,530 --> 01:36:01,380
we're having because

2684
01:36:05,209 --> 01:36:03,540
one we don't know we have no idea what

2685
01:36:07,189 --> 01:36:05,219
the numbers are I mean they're totally

2686
01:36:10,370 --> 01:36:07,199
manipulating the numbers that's clear

2687
01:36:13,250 --> 01:36:10,380
that's just a given and then number two

2688
01:36:14,510 --> 01:36:13,260
the this point about the the separation

2689
01:36:17,629 --> 01:36:14,520
it's like

2690
01:36:20,330 --> 01:36:17,639
you know you you can't compete with some

2691
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:20,340
of this stuff that's out there that

2692
01:36:25,189 --> 01:36:23,280
people are drawn to and it's like I I

2693
01:36:27,890 --> 01:36:25,199
don't know I mean it's just it's crazy

2694
01:36:30,290 --> 01:36:27,900
kind of you know I mean my kids like uh

2695
01:36:32,290 --> 01:36:30,300
you know the Paul brothers and you know

2696
01:36:35,149 --> 01:36:32,300
the fox say all that kind of it's like

2697
01:36:37,370 --> 01:36:35,159
okay that's great you know that's five

2698
01:36:38,990 --> 01:36:37,380
it's like millions and millions of views

2699
01:36:40,609 --> 01:36:39,000
or even you know Joe Rogan which I have

2700
01:36:42,590 --> 01:36:40,619
mixed feelings about but it's like

2701
01:36:44,149 --> 01:36:42,600
I don't know you get my point I think

2702
01:36:45,890 --> 01:36:44,159
you're having an impact more of an

2703
01:36:47,689 --> 01:36:45,900
impact than you might realize and how

2704
01:36:49,250 --> 01:36:47,699
would you know anyway you know you you

2705
01:36:51,290 --> 01:36:49,260
wouldn't you wouldn't know if you are or

2706
01:36:52,490 --> 01:36:51,300
not and I should add there's so many

2707
01:36:54,169 --> 01:36:52,500
people that have had an impact on me

2708
01:36:55,250 --> 01:36:54,179
that probably don't know that I I listen

2709
01:36:57,169 --> 01:36:55,260
to their interviews I mean you're one of

2710
01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:57,179
them you know but you never know when

2711
01:37:00,109 --> 01:36:58,800
you put content out there and I say that

2712
01:37:01,609 --> 01:37:00,119
for people who don't have podcasts and

2713
01:37:03,290 --> 01:37:01,619
don't write books you don't know the

2714
01:37:04,310 --> 01:37:03,300
impact you have on your daily in your

2715
01:37:05,810 --> 01:37:04,320
daily living

2716
01:37:07,729 --> 01:37:05,820
and I'll end on this because it's super

2717
01:37:09,109 --> 01:37:07,739
important I think about all the time in

2718
01:37:10,790 --> 01:37:09,119
the Life review what people constantly

2719
01:37:12,830 --> 01:37:10,800
say is the little things are the big

2720
01:37:14,930 --> 01:37:12,840
things that's what you end up evaluating

2721
01:37:17,570 --> 01:37:14,940
in your life review so the story I tell

2722
01:37:18,890 --> 01:37:17,580
in in uh one of my books is from Dr Jan

2723
01:37:20,689 --> 01:37:18,900
Holden from the University of North

2724
01:37:22,669 --> 01:37:20,699
Texas of a person who had a Life review

2725
01:37:25,070 --> 01:37:22,679
where the person remembered not being

2726
01:37:26,990 --> 01:37:25,080
nice to the cashier and then felt how

2727
01:37:28,850 --> 01:37:27,000
that interaction impacted every other

2728
01:37:31,010 --> 01:37:28,860
person in line afterwards

2729
01:37:32,510 --> 01:37:31,020
because it was an unpleasant interaction

2730
01:37:34,790 --> 01:37:32,520
so the little things are the big things

2731
01:37:39,109 --> 01:37:34,800
in everything we do in life

2732
01:37:41,090 --> 01:37:39,119
right on that is so awesome and whenever

2733
01:37:43,430 --> 01:37:41,100
I hear those stories they're so

2734
01:37:47,209 --> 01:37:43,440
inspirational to me and at the same time

2735
01:37:49,910 --> 01:37:47,219
just devastating to me because I realize

2736
01:37:51,890 --> 01:37:49,920
how much growth I have to do you know

2737
01:37:54,590 --> 01:37:51,900
and and that's the beautiful thing about

2738
01:37:57,109 --> 01:37:54,600
that is it comes back full circle

2739
01:37:58,010 --> 01:37:57,119
because the very positive part of that

2740
01:38:00,950 --> 01:37:58,020
is

2741
01:38:04,189 --> 01:38:00,960
I can change that I can fix that I can

2742
01:38:07,310 --> 01:38:04,199
decide to be better I won't even say

2743
01:38:09,609 --> 01:38:07,320
today I can decide to be debt better for

2744
01:38:14,570 --> 01:38:09,619
the next five minutes you know because

2745
01:38:18,169 --> 01:38:14,580
and that feels like real spirituality to

2746
01:38:21,109 --> 01:38:18,179
me and as opposed to

2747
01:38:24,830 --> 01:38:21,119
contact experiences where the angel is

2748
01:38:25,810 --> 01:38:24,840
that it just it doesn't feel as real as

2749
01:38:31,430 --> 01:38:25,820
just

2750
01:38:33,470 --> 01:38:31,440
little bit better person on for the next

2751
01:38:35,510 --> 01:38:33,480
five minutes yep

2752
01:38:37,910 --> 01:38:35,520
yep and then I will add one for last

2753
01:38:40,850 --> 01:38:37,920
thing because there's the the Paradox of

2754
01:38:43,490 --> 01:38:40,860
this is the over emphasis on compassion

2755
01:38:45,350 --> 01:38:43,500
to the extent of not recognizing where

2756
01:38:46,729 --> 01:38:45,360
one is not being compassionate and I see

2757
01:38:48,410 --> 01:38:46,739
that so much in the world today where

2758
01:38:50,629 --> 01:38:48,420
we're going to focus on this one issue

2759
01:38:52,129 --> 01:38:50,639
to be compassionate in this one

2760
01:38:53,510 --> 01:38:52,139
circumstance but we're going to forget

2761
01:38:55,430 --> 01:38:53,520
about how that's not being compassionate

2762
01:38:57,290 --> 01:38:55,440
and empathetic to everyone else there's

2763
01:38:59,930 --> 01:38:57,300
this blinding that can happen with a

2764
01:39:01,910 --> 01:38:59,940
certain kind of collectivism where

2765
01:39:03,350 --> 01:39:01,920
um there's two sides of it so I agree

2766
01:39:04,870 --> 01:39:03,360
with you and then let's just be mindful

2767
01:39:07,189 --> 01:39:04,880
at the same time

2768
01:39:08,870 --> 01:39:07,199
my brother my brother we could we could

2769
01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:08,880
talk for hours it's such an important

2770
01:39:15,350 --> 01:39:12,719
topic an end to upside down contact Mark

2771
01:39:16,910 --> 01:39:15,360
gober's been our guest thanks again mark

2772
01:39:18,590 --> 01:39:16,920
thank you again Alex and thanks for all

2773
01:39:20,750 --> 01:39:18,600
the work that you're doing thanks again

2774
01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:20,760
to Mark Gober for joining me today on

2775
01:39:25,850 --> 01:39:23,040
skeptico the one question I'd have to

2776
01:39:28,430 --> 01:39:25,860
tee up from this interview is

2777
01:39:32,330 --> 01:39:28,440
if we understand there's some undeniable

2778
01:39:33,830 --> 01:39:32,340
reality to the good E.T bad ET thing how

2779
01:39:37,010 --> 01:39:33,840
do we then understand

2780
01:39:39,590 --> 01:39:37,020
ET as it relates to evil it's a big

2781
01:39:42,229 --> 01:39:39,600
question but we certainly teed up a lot

2782
01:39:44,689 --> 01:39:42,239
until for answers in this interview so

2783
01:39:46,310 --> 01:39:44,699
let me hear your thoughts I'd love for

2784
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:46,320
you to jump on over to the skeptical

2785
01:39:52,669 --> 01:39:48,960
Forum but if you don't do that

2786
01:39:54,649 --> 01:39:52,679
let your voice be heard otherwise

2787
01:39:56,870 --> 01:39:54,659
let's go to do it for this one

2788
01:39:59,280 --> 01:39:56,880
until next time take care